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STAfOARD BIBLIOGRAPHIC MICROFILM TARGET
Section 1 Original Material (as filmed) A uthor( s ) Kiel, Louis David
^r
Author's date(s)
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Title
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Report of trial at Regina. |
Appeal to the Court of Queen's Bench/ |
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1 , • • , _ Manitoba. . . |
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Call number
RB69068
INSTRUCTICMS:
Author
Rlel, Louis David
Date of reauest
i^ril 25, 1975
iix:iQ Report of trial at R«giiia. ^peal to the Court of Quean's Bench, Manitoba....
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THE QXJKEN • t^ LOUIS RIEL,
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ACCUSED AND CONVICTED OF THE CRIME OF EIGE TREASON.
. . i ■.
REPORT
TRIAL A'P HEGINA.-^I'I'KAL TO TIIK COIKT OF QIEKN'S BENCH, MANITOBA. — APFKAL TO THK PRIVY COl'NCIh, KXCil.ANU. PETITIOX FOR MEUIOAI, EXAMINATION OF THE CONVICT. -LIST OF PETITIONS FOR CO.MMITA- TION OF SENTENCK, OTTAWA. -
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OTTAWA : PRINTED BY THE QUEEN'S PRINTER.
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CAMWA 1
North- Wist Tcrritoiio. j
STIPENDIARY MAGISTRATE'S COURT.
THK i,>rEEN'
horiS lUKL
Chimjiil nil III! Iiiilirliiiinf lot- niijli Tri^naoii,
Hililil- till Xurtli U^rif Tiriilui-iin Arl, I-
liK(;lXA, I'Otli July, KSSo.
Till- »''(>uit iisKfiiiKltd iit 11 A.-M.
-Ml!. •hsTlci: UicilAHDSDN. -I liiivc to aiiiioiiiKr tli;i( Mr. Heiirv LcJ.-uue \vill lie the A>sc)i-iiitc Justice t'di- the iiiiproiuliiiii; triiii ;• Mi-. l)i\ie Watson, clerk; Wallace. IMacleaii, .1. S. .Monahaii, James T. Parkcs and V. M. Maivenu, otticial leporters.
-Mr. Slieritl', will you rt.ani the inecept.
Piecept lianilccl liy tlie Sheriir to tile cleik who reads the return and calls tlif list of Jurors. '' , '
His HoNdi! .Mi:. Jistick llicii.MiDSQX. — The clerk will ojieu the Court. Court opened liv the clerk. •.
is; in the prisoner.
the
Mr. JrsTiCK 11kii.\rd.sox. — Mr. Sheriti', ^vill you In -Prisoner liroUirht in and placed in the dock; ^ '
Mil. JlsTlci; lllcilAlilisox. Louis Uiel, hav*' you lieen furnished \vitli
irii !
a copy of-.
cliar;;e, of the panel of jurors, of the list of witnesses for the prosecution \ PiilsoNKit. Yes, your honor.
Mh. J usTUK Rlcii.vKiJSOX.- Arraign the jirisoner. The clerk rertds the indictment, as follows : — . /
Sixth day of July, iii-tht^ year of Our Lord ISSo, at the Town of Regiiia, in the North-West Territories. \ ^
Before me, llui,'li Piichanlson, one of the Stipeiuliary Magistrate?! of ihe North-West Territories, exercising; Criminal Jurisdiction under the provisions oVthe North- West Act, J SMO. . ^
Loris Kiel, you stand charged on oath before me as follows : — 'I
'•The Hiformation and complaint of Alexander David Stewart, of 'the City of Hamilton, in the Province of Ontario, in the Dominion of Canada, Chief of Police, taken the sixth day of July, in the year of Our Lortl one thousand eight hundred and. eigluv- live, before the undersigned, one gf Her Majesty's Stipendiary Magistrates, in and for the said North- West Territories of Canada, who saith :^ ., •
•• 1. That Louis Riel being a suljject of Our Lady the Queen, not regarding the duty of his aJlegiance, nor having the fear of God in his heart, but being moved and seduced by the instigation of the Devil, as a false traitor against our said Lady the Queen, and wholly withdrawing the allegiance, tidelity and obedience which every true and faithful subject of our said Lady the Queen, should and of right ought to b«ar
t(Nsiirrlh our s:ii(l Ladv tho Qnwii, in tlic year iifoifsiiifl, on the twciity-sixtli day of
!Shiri-^. tojiftlicr witli divei-.s other falsf traitors to the .said Alexainh'r David Stewart,
unknown, iirnied and airayed in a warlike manner, tliat is to say, with guns, rities, |>is-
' tols, hayoiiets and other weapons, lieins fiien unlawt'idly, maliciously and traitorously
a.ssemhhid and j;athered toijetlier a;;ainst our said Lady the Queen, at the loeality known
as ]Juek Lake, in the said Xortli-West Terr-itories of Canada, and within this Healni, and
did tlien malieiously and traitortiu^ly attemiit and endeavour liv foiee and arms to suli-
veit anil clestroy the Constitution and tiovernment of this lleaini as liy law estaMished,
and di>]>rive and de])ose-our said Lady the (^ueen of and froin the style, jionour and
"kin;ily name i><* t lie I miH.'iial Crown of this Itealin, in contempt of our said Lady the
.<^ueen and her laws, to the e\il examjil.e of all r)tliers in the like case olt'endini;, contrary
to the (huy of the allegiance f)f him the said Louis ]vi<d, against th<' form of the statute
in such case made and provided, and against the [leace of our said Lady the (t^ueen, her
Crown and <lignity. ••. -
f ' ^'2. And the sai<l Alexander I)a\id Stewart further saith : That the said L(>uis
Kiel, being a suhject of our Lady, the Queen, not regardin.!.' the duty of liis allegiafice,
«ioi' having the fear of <iod in his iieart, liut lieing mo\ed and seduced hy the instigation
of the Devil as a false' traitor against our said Lady the Queen anfl wholly witlidniwing
the allegiance, fidelity and ohedience which fnery true and faitliful suhji-ct of our .said
'Lady the Queen should and of right ought to liear towartls our said Lady the Queen, on
tlie twenty-fourth day of Apiil in the year aforesaid, together with other divers false
traitors to the said Alexander David Stewart unknown, armeil and arrayed in a warlike
manner, tlwt is to say, with guns, ritieii, jiistols, liayonets and otiier weapons lieing then
unlawfully, maliciously and traitorously assemliled and gath*eii-d together'- against . our
•said r^uly the (,)ueen, niost wickedly, maliciously and-traitorous|y did lc\y and make'war
against riur said L;nlv the Queen, at the. locality kno«n as Fish ('reck, in the said
jNorth-W'est Jerritoiies of Canada, and within this Ueidm, and diTI then maHciou:^ly and
traitorousfV attemjit and endeavoi- hy force and ai-ms to suliver'. and destroy the
Constitution and Cciveinment nf this I'calm as liy law estalilishcd. and deprive and
<k'p6se our said Jjidy the Queen of and from the style, honour and kingly name of '
- tlic Luperial Crovyn iif this Itealm, in contemiit of mn- said Lady the <,>ueen and
|ier Jaw.s, to tlie evil examjjle of all otln-r- in the like case otii-nding, cc)ntrarv to tile duty
' of the allegiance of him, the .said Loui.s IMel, against the form of' the Statute in such
.case niiule and ]>rovidt'<l and ajfainst the peace^of our said Liidy tiie Quei-n, her Crown
find dignity. • ». '
V 5" .i. • And tlie .sai<l Alexander David Stewart fiilrthei- saitli ; That tiie .said Louis Kiel, being a suliject of o\n' Ijiidy the Queen, not legariling the duty of his allegiance nor lia^ing the fear of (Imd in lii.s heart, hut lieiiig moved and .seduced hy flic instigation ^f the J)e\il, iis a traitor against our said liady the Queen, and wholly withdrawing -the allegiajjce, lidelity and oliedience w-hich i-very true and fuithful suliject of oui- said Lady
jjdft' Queen .shoulil and of light ought to hear towards our .said Lady tire Queen, on the ninth, tenth, eleventh and twclftJi days of .^Lly, in the year aforesaid, togetlier with other (K\eis false trait+»t.s t»j tlie said Alexander J)a.\id Stewart unknovvn, armed and arrayed in ji^warlike nijinner, that is to say, with ^uns, ritles, pistols, liayonets and other weapons.' lieing then unlawfully, maliciously and traitorouslv as.->emliled hii|I gathered togdther against our said I>a(ly the Queen most wickedly, maliciously and traitorously did jjBvy ai'iil make war against our said Jjady the Queen at th(? locality known us
^IWm'he, in the .^aid 'Jsorth-\V est Territories of Canada, and within thi.-, Uealm, and did then maliciously and traitorously attempt^ and endeavor hy foi-ce and arms to subvert and destroy the Constitution antl, (iovernment of tlii.s Uealm as by law estab- lished, and dejirive aim depose our said Lady tlie Queen of and from the style, honour aiidliingly name'' of tlie Liii)erial Crown of this Uealm, in contempt of our .said Ijiidy tlie Queen and her laws, to the evil example of all others in like case offending, contrary to the duty of the allegiance of^him, the .said Limis Uiel, against the form of the Statute in
Z'
sucli ease luudc mid jirovidnl mid injaiust tlii' jicaco of our said Ladv the Quoeiii'her Crown and dij^nity.
" +. AikI tlio said Alexander David Stewart further wiitli : Tliat the said liOuis l\
Kiel, tlien living' witliin tlie Doinitiion of C'auaila and under tlie protection of our Lady the Queen, not rej^ardinj^ the duty of liis allegiamveT^or liavin^ the t'eaiflpf (lod in hi Jieart, liut l>einj; moved and seduced l>y the instij^ation of tlie Devil as , ; • o'
aj^ainst our said Lafly- the Queen, and whollv withdrawini; the alle;,'iaiice, hdelity and oliedience which he should and of right ou;^lit to hear towards our said Lady the Queen; on the twenty-sixth day of ^Liivh, in the year aforesaid, together with other divers false traitors to the said Alexaiidei' David Stewrart unknown, aru.ed and arrayed in a warlike manner, that is to say, with j^uiis, riHes, jiistols, liayonets and othi'r weapons, beini^ then unlawfully, maliciously and traitorously assemliled and feathered to;;etlier aijainst our said Lady the Queen, most wickedly, maliciously and traitorously did levy and make v war against our said IjJidy the (^ueeii at the locality known- as Duck Lake, in the said ^
Xorth-West Territories of (,'anada, and Within this Realm, and did then maliciously and traitorously attempt and endeavor hy force and arms to suhvert and destroy the Constitution and (ioverniiient of this Realm as hy law estahlished, and deprive and depose our said Lady the Queen of and from the style, honour iyid kingly name of the Imperial Crown of this Realm, in contempt of our said Lady the (jueen and her laws, to the evil ^ example of all others in like case ollendiug, contrary to the duty of the allegiance of him, the said f^ouis Riel, against the form of the Statutt< in such case made and provided and against the peace «f our said Lady the Queen, her CrowU and dignity.
" 5. And the said Alexander David Stewart further saith : That the said Louis Riel, then living within the Dominion of Canada, and under the protection of our said Lady tlie(<ilueen, not regarding the duty of his allegiance nor having the fear of Gwl in ' his heart, hut being moved and seduced hy the instigation of the De\ 14 as a false traitrtr against our said Laih' the t^hiecn, and wholly withdrawing the allegiance, fidelity and oliedience which he should and of li^ht ought to hear towards our said Lady the Quieeu, on the twenty-fourth day of A]iril, in the ye.ii- aforesaid, toijether with other divers falsfe traitors to the said Alexander jtavid Stewart unknown, ariiied and arrayed in a warlike manlier, that is to say, with guns, ritle^, jjistols, liayonets and other weapons, lieing thea unlawfully, maliciously and traitorously assembled and gathered together against oi»r said l^nly the (^ueeii, most wickedly, maliciously and traitorously did levy and make waf against lair said Lady the Queen, at the locality known as Fish Creek, in tin; Sivid N'orth-NVest 'J'erritories of (.'anada, and within thi^ Realm, and did then maliciously and traitorously attempt and endea\ 111', hy force and arms| to suh\ert an<l destroy the Con- stitution and ( ioverniiient of this Realm as hy law estahlished, and deprive iwid depose, our said I«ulv the t^hicen of and from the style, honour and kindly name of the Imperial Crown of this llealm, in contempt of our said Lady tlie Queen and her laws, to the evil exaiiijile iit all others in like case ortending, contrary to the allegianci' of li)m, the said Louis Riel, against the foiiii nf the Statute in such case made and provided, and against the peace of our said Jjidy the (^Jueen, her Crown and dignity. ,
■• t). And the said Alexander David Stewau further sailli : That the said Louis Riel, then li\ ing witJiin the Dominion of Canada and uiider the protection of ( )ur Sovereign Lady thi' Queen, luit regarding the duty of his allegiance, nor having the tear of tiod in his lu-art, hut heing moved and seduced hy the instigations of the Devil as a false traitor against (Jur said [..ady the Queen, and wholly withdrawing the allegiance, Hdelity and ohedieiice which he should ami of right ought to he.ir towards ( )ur said Lady " . the yueeii, on the ninth, tenth, eleventh and twelth days of May, in t'le year aforesaid, together with divers oth^r fal.se traitors to the said Alexander l>avid Stewart unknown, arivled and ar»^yed in a warlike iiiauuer, that is to say with guns, riHes, pistols, bayonets and other weapons being then unlawfully, maliciously and traitorously a.ssemhled and j;athered agaiVist Our said Lady the Queen, most wickedly and maliciously ami traitorously tlid levy and make war against (,)ur said Lady the Queen, at the locality known as
r
it ;. i
f ! •
Baloilie, lii-^tln' Siiid XoitJi West Tcrritoiics of (jaivulii. iiiid witliiii tliis liOiillii .and (lid tlii'ii, iii;ili(.-iim.sly aiul traitorously iitti'iiijit iuid I'udciivour liy forci^ find ai-iiis to julivort and destroy tile Constitution and (iovernineut of this Realm as liy law e-,tal»lislicd, and depiive and depose Our said Lady the Queen of and from tlie style, honour and kinj;ly iimne of the linperinj Crown of tliis llealni in eontenipt of < )ur said Lady the (Jueen and her laws, to the evil example of others in like case orteiidiii!,', contrary to the duty of iiHefiiSnce of him, the said Louis lliel, a.v':»iiist the form of the Statute in such case made
and" providi' (liiLfnitv.
id
ajjanist the pi
rpf On I
Liidy the
(Siifned)
<t)(ieen, Mi
li case < 'iiiwn
and
\
Sworn liefore me,'the day and year first aliove mentioned, at the town of Rej^ina, in t)ie North West T^Ti-itorieij f)f Canada.
A. 1). STKWART.
(Si.^'ne.l) '
.)%,
Hl'iiH RICHARDSON.
niriiii- ill I'll'/ I'll' III'' Xor/i'i-
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ClEKK. - -Ijouis Riel, are you ijiiiity or not uuilty .'
>Ii«. Jl'stick RuilAKUsrfS".- Wlio appears for the prosecution ?
Mr;. Cinn.sTi\i>iieii Roiiivson Q. C. —I appe.u- with ms' learned friimls I;. I!. u>|i>f, Q. C, U. W. lJur!.id;.'e, ^l ('., I). L. Scott anil T. C Casj/riiin. '
Mit. F. X-. TiKMlKUX. I apjiiiai' for the iirisoner with Mr. Charles Fit/patrick, J. N. CJreenshields and T. (,'. .lohnston. I hold in my hand a jilea ti> the jurisdiction <if the. Court, su|>ported hy the usual aliidavits, and we have aj,'reed that Mr. Fit/patrick shall arjfue that part of the i-ase. Will your Honor he kind enou.^ii to have the prisoner swear to the iitlida\ it suiiportiiii,' the plea^ ;
^Ik. Rl('il.\i!l)SOV.--Tiie clerk may swear him now, as the Court is ojien. -;
I ■ A^davit sworn to hy the prisoner-.
Mr. FlTEHATlilCK. - -May it-please your Honor, [ will now jir-!)cee<I to reail to tlrt^ Ccuirt the plea to tl:e jurisdiction of the Court in this case and atlidavit.
; . "THE QUEEN i«. LOURS RIEL."
• " Clini'jiil uiid'-r tlir .Vartli^Wpsl /irritorien Art JSS'K
"And the said Louis Riel, in his own proper per.son conieth into a Court liere and liavinj; heard the information and complaint of Alexander David Stewar-t, of the City of Hamilton, in the Province of Ontario, in the Dominion of Canada, Chief of Police, taken the sixth day of July, in the year of Our Lord one thou.saud ei;,'ht liuiulred and eiuhty- tive, hefoie Hugh Richardson, one of Her Majesty's Stipendiary Magistrates in and for the North- West Territories of Canada, saith : '
" That Hugh Richardson, Esq., one of Her Majesty's Stipendiary Magistrates for the North- West Territories of Canada, exercising criminal jurisdiction, in open Court, with a justice of the peace and a jury of six, under the provision of the Norfh-We.st Territories Act, 1880, ought not to take cognizance of the offences in the said infomnation charged and specified hecause, protesting that he is not guilty of the saine^ nevertneless. tlie said Louis Riel saith that the ofl'ences with wliich he is charged are punishable witn death and he should Vje committed for safe custody and sent for trial to Upper Canada or to any Court constituted in British Columbia, taking cognizance of like offences committed therein, and because in virtue of the laws in force in the place where the said offences are charged to have been committed, the said Hugh Richardson, in open Court, with a
;. ' ■ . ' ■- t^' - ■
Y
justice of the peace und a juiy of six, lius no jurisdiction to try tlie otl'ences cliargetl in tlie said infonniition.
"WlieiTt'ore tlicsaid Loui's Kiel prays jud<fHT(MiF it' the sa^HLHu;;!! Richardson in open Court witii a justice of the peace and a ^ry of six now lieiV^will take coj^nizauce of the cRar;;es' aforesaid. '
Opurt here adjourned till one o'clock. ResHiired after adjournnii'.it
\
\
ICesHiiren atter adiournniint.
His IfTiNol! .Ml!. .llsTliK IvKllAKD.-ioN. Hefore you proceed, 1 un(U'r.-.taUd tliere are <|uite a nundier of prisoners in cust6<ly. ;
-Mii. OsLKi!. — Seventy tliree.
-Ills Hoxoi!. -Oo.ins tliroti^li all tliese will take a very lonj,' time, a ^reat number of days. Tlie prospects are that this case, if it does not close at once, will take a consi- deralile time and will lie folloMfVI l>v the others. 1 think it would lie unfair for the prisoners to keep them. lon<;er in custodv than iieces.sary, and 1 propose therefore, tM ' there are other ■,'entlenieii haviiij^ the same jurisdiction as .iiiy.self, to ask tli6 (loveni- meiit to send one of them to hold Court so its to have the two Courts sitting' at the .same time, if you j;entleiiieii lunc no oljection to that course.
Mli. RolilXsov. -We ha\ <• iiii ulijecii.iii to that. We were talkiii;; al.out it this niorniii<'.
MluFlTZI'.vnilcK. luill pii.cei'd to n-ad our plea to the Jurisdii-tion of the (.'ourt; as amended in sfime re.sjiect^.
Jfl.s Ho.Noi;. This will In- Niilistiluti'd for the one put in my hand thi.-> iiKiriiiuL;.
-Mr. Kitzpatriik rea<K thi> plea as aiiitiuled.
Ml!. liOltlsso.v. - III our view a formal plea to the jiuisdiction is Hot necessary nor a foi-ii»iil answer, we tlu)Uj,dit it onlv necessary for them to stiite their ohjeetion and for us to answei them. ' / ^ — -'
••And the said Christopher lloMn.son, one of Her ^lajesty's Counsel learned in the law, wlio foi- ( )ur said Sovi-rtiu;u Lady tin- t^ueeii, in tlvis liehalf prosecute, to the .said ple.i of him the .said Louis liiel, liv liim aliove pleacled as aforesaid, for ( )ur said jHesent Sovereiuii Lady the (^Uieeii, saith :
••That the sail jilea and the nii'itter therein contained are not sutticient in law to precluife the Court from their jurisdiction, and to liearaiid determine the oti'eiices charffed,' mentioned and .specified in the said charije as ahoxe cliariied upon him the said, Louis Kiel in and liy the said charge.
•■Wherefore, for want of a proper and sutticient answer in this lielialf he prayeth judj;- iiient, and that the said IjOilis Kiel may answer in Court hereto Our said present Sovereign Lady the (Jueeii touchinif and conceriiiiii^ tin: premises aforesaid..
Answer handed to the clerk and fvled.
His Hoxoii. — We have the plea to the jurisdiction and we have the demurrer. Mif. FrrzH.\Ti!i('K.'^ We join i.s.sue upon tlie demurrer.
.Ml:. Jiscii'U lllcil.Miliso.N. - Now, if J under.stand the contention of Mr. Fitzpatrick, it is that this Act of is.so, .so far as it relates to the trial of criminal oti'eiices such as this, is ii/lnt c/rf.v.
Mii. FiTZF.\riii('K. .My contention is that the Act of lf<f<0, in .so far as it relates to the trial of capital cases is ii/(ra (•//•ck. ' - '
'Sht. Jl'.sTICK KinniiDSON. -Well, as I cannot hold that, I must sustain the demurrer. »
1 innst HOW call upon Louis Riel tcTjilead. , I
Piisoiier jilfiuls not guilty. ' •
>ln. .r<)rixsT<».— With tPio j)eniii.ssioii of tlio^couit 1 l>pj^ li-iivc to demur to the iiifoniiittioii.' It inrglit l)ft sutiiciiMit tf) dcniur </;•<- trjui.--, or liy oral cxfcptioii to tjie iiifoniiatioii : y(t,.;is the juToiiii^tioii laid hy tiie jirosfcutioii in itst'lf fonnal, and a de|)ar-' lure tVojii tli«" proii'duiv ln'i('tiT))t' tliis' couHj I think it mvessaiy to jiut fn a written general .demurrer as follows : ■ ' * .
' C.\XAU.*. ' t. . ■
NortJi-\yt.st' Teriitories. )
TITE Ql'kKX -x LoriS Kl KL, now dnrv'.'d l.ef.in' His Honor H u-Ii Hichaitl-; son, Stipendiary Mai;istrate, and Meinv AieJcunc. l']s(Hiiie, a justice i)f tlie jieaee, and 'a jury of six undPr the jii-ovision of sul)section .">, seetion 70, of the Norh-West Terri- tories Ai-t, l''^)^0, on the information of Alexiinder~Pu\ id Stewart. The said Louis
Kiel, .in his own jiroj/er- person, >fonieth into Court, h*»e, and ha\ in-.; heard saW-~, inforinatjon rea(l,jsiiy(?th that the. said information and the matters therein contained ■ in tlje iiKiniuM' iUJ<l' foriri as de.sei'iiied and above stated and set forth, are not sufficient in md khat the said Lo'uis Kiel' is not liound liy law of the land to aiiswer the Siinie. , Wlieri'fore for want of suttioient information the said Louis Kiel jirays judj^ment.
law,
Ml{.l JusTKK Uk'iuhdsoS. I don t think there is anytliiiii; in tlie olijicfion of .Mr. JohnstoiJ and I ovi'rrule it. .\re thciv any other demurrers .'
^Ik.J Osi.Klt. The clerk will ask the prisonei- x^liother he i.VL'uilty oi- not.
Cl.KliK. Louis Hie), are yo\i uuilty or not guilty .'
PmilONKli. — I have the honor to an.swer the Court I am not guilty.
Mh. FrrzHAliilcK. - I have now. to state thitt I ha\e to ask' an adjournment till to- inorro^v ifuorning to enahle us to prepare some atHdavits we re(|uire to produce to show why we *re not in a |iosition to proceed with the trial at the piesent moment.
< Hisl HoSoH. Jurois will understan<l that they arc to lie continually iii attendance, as al.so \\|itne.sses on Koth sides.
Wejwill adjoutii till 10 o'cloik to nioirow. Coult then adjourned. •
i'i:(.i.\.V .luly Jlst, ISS.'i. The clerk opened thf Court at 10 o'clock. H isfl I onor -M r. .hsiici; Ui<ii.\uns_o> : (.'all the jury. Tliiej clerk calls over the list of juror.s. .
■ ' TlK^M.vs Pi;i:i,, one of the jurors. — Yrmr honor, on ac ■unit of luing postmaster and coiitractijr to carry the mails, I lieg to lie relieved.
His Honoh. — I fear-l havi> no power to relieve you now, you were fairly drawn out of a large nundier of names, and 1 do not think that 1 can discharge you now.
His Honoh. I have~noticed several jurors who were sunnnoned do not a|)peiir. Is it the desire that procee(l,ings should he instituted against them .'
Mii UoiiiNsox. Not if we can get on without them.
Mli Lk.mieux.- Mr. Watson, wrll you please swear the prisonei- to the.se ,irtida\its.
The clerk swears tfie attidavits.l
Mnj. (xHEKXSlliKLDS. Please vour honor, we renew the application made yesterday afternixin for an adjournment of this tiial. in the interval .since the a<ljournment we
have liad tliici- atliilavits |)icpiirt'<), two of the st-iiior couiisel, ^Ipssrs Leuiieux and Fitz- patrick, and (•ue of tin- ac'-used. We hase our aj»i>lieatiou to^a large extent upon thpse attidavits. « • •
His Honor.- Have th(>y l»'en shown to the counsel for the CrOwn f, ^ - v
Mr. HolilxsoN. We have seen them just lately, we will look over tli^-ni ayain.
Mr. < ;i(Ki;\slilKM>s leads the allidavits annexed herit. 4 .,.'....
.Ml!. .llsriCK KU'llAliDSox. The order will he that the trial stands a<ljourne(l,- that it proceeds |iereiniitorily on Tuesday niorninji next, the liSth instant, at ten o'clock.. Witli rej;ard to tin- .lurv, 1 dijn't feel inclined to keep theiii in attemlance, and 1 pi-opCse to cautiiin and waiJi them To return on Tuesday inorniii','. • ' ' , .
To iiii: .liHVMKV. A'«)U i;entlemen in the audience who lia\e heen warned as' jurors, will understand from what has lieen said, that VdUr servi. e^ will not he retjuiit-d now till Tui'sday m-xt, at >eu o'clock a.m., anil you. are nt lilierty now to retuin to your homes if you l>lease. The fees that are usual for the.diudde journey, will lie paid l>y the ( 'rown. Perhaps it is not neces.sary for me to make any remaiks touching,' you iier.soii- aliy, liut kiiowinif tiie fact that yon are called ujion to act as jurors' in this case, kindly think of tin- jMisition you occupy, antl neither talk to anyliody al«>ut th.' trial, nor allow any pers(ui to talk to you or lirin-,' you in conxcrsation.
The Couit was aciordin.i;ly adj.ourned at 1 l.4."'i a.m. till the L'."<th July, at tin a. ni.
.Ijfl'lini/s fl/ri/ lilt illlll'tlll /ill' lliljllilfllllll'ltf. I
V\s\\>\: I TIIK (,>IKHN ,-,s. LoliS HIKL,
North-West Teiritorieri. | cliar;;etl under the North-West Territories .\ct of IsSO,
I, Lolls UlKi., tin- said accused, licini; duly swoin. do depose and siiy :
That (iaiiriel |)umont and Michel I>unias, now nf Helena, in the I'nited States of Amei'icn. in the Territory of Montana, are e^^eutial and nuiterial witnesses to my defence.
That Napoleon Naidt, of Turtle Mountain, in the I'nited States : the Rev. b'ii^ther Touse, of Sacit'-Cour ; the Kev. Father Andre, of St. Antoine ; the Hew Pather Fourmond, of St. f.aurent ; all in the North- West Territiuies of Canada ; S. Vanki<in;h- net and .\. .M. Ihiryes'-, of < )ttawa, in the I'roxinceof ( )ntaiio, arc also essential and material witnesses tor my ilc fence.
That the said ,S. \'ankouijhaet is Deputy Minister of Indian .Vtlairs,' and the said Burj;ess is Ueputy Minister of tlu' lnteri(u-, lioth of wiiom are in their otticial capacity, tlie custodians of various otlicial documents, petitions and ri'presentations, made hy the Half-breeds of tluf North-West Territories to the (ioVernment of tin- Dominion of Canada, praying' for the re< I ress of their grievances, the refusal to jjrant which led to tlie legal agitation of the people to secure tlie redress of their wrongs. The said pajwrs, |>etitions and documents, as nearly as 1 can now descrihc them, are as follows: The report of .Mr. Pier(>e relating to the settlement of Prince Alhert ; a letter of the said Pierce, aildres.sed to tht^ .Minister of the Interior, of date, the ITtli of .lanuarv, lf»."'4. .V ' letter from Mi-. Dex ille, addressed to the i)eputy Minister of the Interior, of date, 7tli Feliruary, ISS4. .V letter from Father ISerginville, addressed to Capt. Deville, of date, 19th January, rsS4. .\. petition l>y the inhaliitants of St. Louis-de-Langevin, for- warded to Sir John .V. .Macdonald, alxait the lOtli Novemher, ISS.}. .\ letter from tlie Liind CommissicHiner, .Mr. Pieiei'. dated, 1 4th Septemlier, ISS:!. .V let t.-r from Fathers Leduc and Malony, addressetl to the Hon. D. L. .Macpher.son, acting .Minister of the Interior. A pf-tition from the si'ttlers of Prince Albej:t, in the North-West Territories, ■
:/
■ »
•forWrded durinn; the wiiitfr of 1H.S2 and lt<i>*;{, uiul si;,'iiwl lij- ii hirgi- iuiial>er of said settlwrs. A iietitioii from St. Antoine dc-Padouf, iiddrcssed to Sir- Joliii A- Macdonald, a«>3Ii)iist('r of the Interior, of date, tlie 14th Si-ptcinl)cr, 1S.S2. A |i<'tition from (Jahriel -t>ui)iif>nt and otliers, of the 4th St'|)teml)er, 1><.S4, a(hlr('ssed to the Ili^ht Hon. 'Sir John Af^|acdonahl, as Minister of the Interior. A petition jirt-.sented liy the Ke\ . Father I Andj'e 1» tlie. Lieutenant (iovernor in Council, in tlic month of June, ISSl. A petition . presented liv thi' inhahitants of Prince Albeit to tjie Ministi'r of the Interior. .V letter from Land Ai,'ent Duck, dated the L'Uli of XovenilM-r, ISJS, addiessed tii the Minister of tlie ]ut4'rior. A petition hy the French-Canadians and llalf-Krceds o^ I'rinie Alliert jiresented hy Mr. Laird to the (ioveiinnenl (if tlie Itondnion of Canaifa. A rcsulutioii j>assed liy these settlers of St. Ijiui'ent of the 1st of Feliruary, l^'7>'', fiHwarded to th(^ < Jo.vf rnnient of the JJominion of Canada. \ [lefition pi-esented l.y the t,|u'A)ipelle Half- fireefls in Aujfust'or Sei)tend>er, lt<M, to Sir John A. Macilonald, as .Minister of the. Tnterior. A resolution. o"f the Cchincil of the North-\^'e^t Territorii>. nt tlu' ditcof "Jnd Au-ijust, 1S7S. ' *
That I liave reason to lu'liexe, and do M'rily liilie\c. and I am iMfoiiucd on relialile .lutlority, fhat all of the afori'iiientioned documents wei'e duly forwardeil to llie (ioverii- nient of ( 'anada, and aie now in the po.s.sc.s>ion of the \arious |)c|i;iiMjiientn, ami can 1m jiroi
and ifor i
' .ief(
us'ed l>y the alio\ cnamed witnc-.ssc-v
That all the alio\ I'liamcrl witnesses :ire material anil I's.sential to nii' in my defence, will prove that the a,;,'itation in the North W'l-^t Teri-itorie-, wa> eonstitutioiiul .ind lie rijihts of the people in said North W'e.sT.
That without the saiil witni'.sses liein!.: heard in Cmnt, I cannot make a jirnpei (Ince to the present chaiLie and will lie ili'|irived of justice. I That 1 lia\c no means withwhicli to di-fray the expenses of lie- >aid «iln.-.se., and to jlrocure their attendance here in ('ourt or to ret, tin counsel.
Tliat unless tlie (iovernineiit of this country (M- this llonoraMi- ( 'nuii d.pr.ivide means witli which to .secure tiie altendam'e of the aliove named wilncsscs. Iiclore tliis Coi rt, it i.s es.sential to my d<-fenee that the various pa)H'rs, writin;,'s and docaiments takpii from me at the timi- of my surrender to (ieneial Middleton and taken liy him and orticers froiH my liouse sul).sei|iiently should lie placed in the hands of my coiiiisel for e.vaminatioi' and consideration, pi'eylous to lieiiii,' put U|iiin my trial. That it is im)iossiljle forTiie to stale the exact description of the said papers, writ- in.''s and documents,. as the exciteiuent under whiili I was lalioiliii; duriii;; the time of
th.
his theSi
iliil ]ire\ ioiis thereto, render it impossjiile for
my s«iriender anil some days sulisei|ueijtl
me to de.-?)_riln tli^ said documents. . • ■ ' '
*• That' I lii'licM' amoni; the s'aid document,s is a cerlilicate of the Coiiris of ihe I'liited
States of .\merica that I was duly naturalized as a citizen of the I'niled States, which 1
Wjiii, hut if the .said ceittlicate is not aliionu the said |iapers, it is essential to niy defence
that J should lie iri\ ell an op|)oi;tunity of olitaininu the said ceititicatt- l>y means of wiiich' , I can estalilish that, at the time of the cohikiii-ssioii of the alleued ollences, 1 was a citi/eii '<if the Ciiitrd States of America, and was not a ISritish snliject,- as ciiarjfed in the sjlid
information. ' • '
' That in order to jiroperly prepare for my di^fenci- I
ii)(>ntli, and 1 ha\ e signed. " .; (Siuiieil), ■
niie al li
ilelav of one
LuL|.«i JJIKL
i^vorii and ackiiow ledjied before me this ' H'lst dayof July A. I). ISS."). at lle- _Uiiiui, in the North-West Territories.
<Sig«ed),
DIXIK WATSON. <■/.,■;,:
:■{
*A
V .,1 vv'^^/t*^' •. • ! THK QUEKN' <•«. LOt'IS KIEL. .\ortli-\N est leni tones, j ^
^-^
KiiAM.ois Xavikk r^KMiicrx, liiu-i-ister, oiif of the touimel of Louis Uifl, the accused, iii'iuic itiily swoni, (l<'|io.si-tli and .says ; ■
That ill thf toiirsi' of hist Juiii-, towards tlic end of tin- month, he was rptaiued l>y piisoiis intcicstcd on lii-lialf of tlic an-usfd to luah'rtakt' his detVucc.
That pi-isons wiTi' in>tiiuted tf> i"iu.-.c to l>f hrouylit to Rej;ina essfutial and neces- ■ .^ siii-y: witiifsscs in'tl(c <hfi-nii' of Louis Hicl, and helievcd to lie such liv tlic dciioncnt.
TJiMt the witnesses aliove referred to are Doctor Francois Ivoy, of (Juehec, Doctor < lark, of 'i'oronto, and Doctor A. \'alh-e,' of (^ueliec.
That the de|ionent verily heliexes tliat tlie said witnesses would hax'e reacheil Kejjina I'y this time, hut hy I'eason of misajnirehension anil circumstances lieyond control, the -aid witnesses Irixi' failed or lia\e not lieen alile to be jireseut in orderVo give their "
■ •\ idence. *
That from hi- e\|ii-iicnee a- a counsel and advocate lie swears that tlie said Divs. l!oy,N'all<e and Clark are iiece-sary, material and indispensable witnesses for tht dM'ence of theai ctised, and n'oreoviT, are the sole witnesses capable of Jiri)\ inj,' certain important facts relatioL' to the said defence.
That the deponent \eriiy beliex es that if a (hday of one inonth is LJianted he can procnri- tin- saiil witnesses .by jjoinu liimself to tjuebec , and Toronto, and that, at 'he expir.ition of the said <li'lay, the above-tiatned witnesses will be present at .the Cmrt '. to !_'iM- e\ idem-e in fa\ cir of the airU-eil. ■ . .
' And the di-p.ineht lias signed. ■ •
^wuril bi-foie Mie. at l!.-;;il,;i. tlli, ( L'Ist dav of .lilU. lSS"i. I
(Siiilied),
F. .X. LK-MIKIX.
(JsiUIUll »,
DIXli; WATSON. fV.-X.
V I u-^^^'I'^ • ■ ' Tin: i,M KK.N ..V. LdllS RIKL. '
Nmtli West lerritories. i ' . ■ . .- ■ .
/• tin trial undiM sHb-ictioii "i of jSectioii 7<) fif the North- West Territories' Act of l."^SH, before their lioiim-, llunh Kichafdson, J^. M.,' and Henry LeJeuiie, J. P., and a- ■.liiry of si\. ' . .
■I. ( 'hiirle- l''it/.patrick. of the city of Quebec, Oiu' Of the counsel of the above-iialned ' Louis Itiel, make oath and say : , ' "
1. 1 uas n-laiiieil fitr the defence of the s.aid Lijuis Kiel in the month of June last passed, ai d immediately tlieieafter put myself in communication with my -aid client and others, with the view of .obtaining,' such information as would enable me to' set up such defence as in the intere.st of my said client would be most beueHcial.
-. < »wini; to the distance of (Quebec ivjinti uly client, it was not until the iOth day • if the said month of June I was instructed by tht/accused, and then oidy partially.
;i. Since the receipt of tlie .said instruction, I have been dilit(ently endeavoi'inj,' to , obtain the atteiulance 'of the witnesses for the accused, but as he,_the accused, is jt man of little or no means, and had to rai.se funds for his defence through his friends in tlie I'rovince of Quebec, it was an utter impossifiility to obtain their attendance in tiine-ror his trial.
4. 1 have been instruited since my arrival in Regina, that the requisite funds have
. ^-'
\
10
been raised to secure tlie attendance of the saitl witnesses for tlie defence, wlio are mate- rial and necessary, and without whose evidence we cannot proceed to ti-ial.
\/i4.i^j), I y i S- * Some qi tlie facts intended to be proved by sucli witnesses, are tliat the accused j • ', fcr sevei-al years was insane, and liad to be conti^ied in a lunatic asylum in the Province Vn^^Kifj'^i'^ Quebec, and would get deranged ; also, the circumstances under which the accuse(l left his home in Montana, and came to this country, u-t the solicitations of his friends, in the year one thousand eight hundred and eighty-five ; the nature of the agitation in the North- West, and the constant advice given by the accused to limit the agitation to i constitutional means and, peaceful measures ; the desire expressed by the accused to - leave the country in tite month of February last passed, and the ()bjecti<ins of the people to his returning to Montana aforesaid ; that the alleged rebellioif^is connii(nue<l ./ 'and conducted under the direction of a council of fourteen persons, of which council the ' prisoner was not a member ; and that he did not participate in any <'iigageiiieiit or commit or countena ce any overt act of treason.
0. These facts can be proved by (iabriel J>uiiioiit, Michel l)uinas, Napoleon Naull, "^ Dr. Roy! of Quebec, Dr. Clark, of Toronto, and J)r. Valh'-e, of Quebec, whose attendance at the trial I verily ,belie»'e can be secured, if sutticient time for that purpose is granted to the defence. , ^ »
- • ■ \J (.Signed), . . - -
• C. FITZPATKIC'K. "•■ Sworii'before me, at Reginit, this | . • *
LMstday of July, ISS.-i. ( Signed ),^
I
1)1X11-: \V.\TS()X, Cl^rh:
\ ■ -^ ^ .■ ■ ' — . ■ ■
I ■ '• ' . Rk(iixa, tuesday, July, the 'If^ih, 18!S."».
The Court met at ten o'clock a.m.
MvK. Osi.Elt opened the ease to the Jury. '':.-. ' ^
The witiies.ses were then called as follows: ' :
Dr. John H. WiLLoucnnv, sworn, examined by Mi'. l*i>binson. ■ ,_,^
^ Q. YoU are a -medical man ? — .\. Yes.
Q. Where are you practising ?- A. At Saskatoon.
Q. How long there \ — A. I ha\e been there since two years last May. ^Q. How far is Saskatoon from Batoclie ? A. About .50 miles.
Q. Do you remember going to ISatoche about the ItStli March last .' A. I do.
Q. Did you go alone? — A. No, I was accom|)anied by
Q. By whom ? — A. A half-breed named Norbert Welsh.
Q. And at wiiat house did you go to stop wheii you got to Batoclie ? -A. I stcq.p<-d with George KeVr.
Q. Is that the Kerr Bi-others ? — A. Yes, at their store.
Q.- Did you hear anything of any anticipated difficulty ? A. I <lid.
Q. Where ? — A. I heard it at Mr. Kerr's store.
• Q. How li'rtig did you remain at Batoclie then ? — A. TwotM)'s.-
Q. You went on the ICth, when did you leave it?-— A. 1 remained over the 17th and left upon the 18th.
\-
11
/
Q. Did you see any one on the 17tli, did you hear anything then of any disturbance anticipated, did you hear any rumour of possible difficulties ? — A. I did hear rumors.
Q. When you left Batoche/wTiom did you go with? — A. I left with Mr. Welsh and Mr. Macintosh.
Q. Had Welsh any object in view, did he desire to see any one from Batoche? — A. . We were lea\ing Batoche for Saskatoon.
Q. You were with Welsh ?—x\. Yes.
Q. Was lie desirous to see any one, as far as he explainetl to you .' — A. He \<-as desirous of seeing Riel.
Q. Did you go v ith liini for that purpose ? — A. T did.
Q. Where did lie e.vpect to tind Rit-l then ? — A. I hardly know where he e.\i>ected to find him, he was informed on th» road by Gabriel Dumont as to Kiel's whereabouts.
Q. Did you find Riel ?— A. Yes. ^
Q. Where '! - A. At tlie house of a Half-breed nrtnied Hocheleau.
Q. What is his christian name? — A. I don't reiuend<er.
Q. How far south of Batoche was that ? A. Six or .se\ eu iiiiU'S.
Q. Did you know Kiel at that time ? — A. I had inet him before.
Q. How long before ? — A. About four months.
Q. About the D;^cend)er or January before ? — A. Yes, in November, -I believe.
Q. Whereabouts f — A. I met liim at the housi' of Moise Ouellette.-
Q. Had you been introduced and spoken to him then ? A. I had spoken to him then. 4
Q. You knew jiim by siglit .' -A. Yes. -
Q. When you met him at Rocheleau's, did he say anything to you .'—A. He did;
Q. Wiiat did he say ?--A. Well, he told iw the time had- come for the Half-l>ree<ls to a.ssert their rights. •
Q. Do you Tnean that was the first thing or almost the first thing he said to you, did he ask you any (juestion at all^ — A. When' I entered the house, I spoke to him. I sat opjiosite to liim, and very little was said for a few moments. Presently, he got up 'T and j)as(jed in front of me, and lie suddenly stopi)ed and turned to me and said ; The time has come wlien it would have been well for a man to haye been good or to lia\e led 'a \^ good lif6. ' . • ,
Q. Did he say anymore then ? — A. I replied to that.
Q. What did you say, do you remember ? — A. I cannot remember what I did say, . something to the effect it would be better for a man to always lead a good life and be prepared for any emergency.
Q. What took place next % — A. Just at that time a large crowd of men drove up to the door of Roclieleau's house. _ , . ' '
Q. How many do you think ? — A. I would judge about CO or 70.
g. Were tliey Half-breeds ?— A. Half-breeds.
Q. Were they armed ? -A. They were.
Q. All armed, as tir as you observed ? — A. No, there were some who were not armed.
f
12
c/
ii. Were the iiiiijority luiiK-d ,' A. Tlie majority were armed, ;1 only remember seeing one who was not armed. 1-
Q. What were the majority armed with? — A. The niajority, I |l>elieve, had shot guns, appeared to nie to be shot guns. They were outside :aud I was iti tlie house.
Q. This would liave Iteeu on tlie 17th Mareh, if I understand it li;,'htly ? A. The l.'^tlk It was on a Wednesday, I Relieve, the IStli. ,
Q. When tlii.-i iiowd eanie, did the jirisoner say anythinj; to you .' A. It was just as they drove up he addressed me. He then said tlie Half breeds (he and his peojile, I lielieve, he put it) intended to strike a blow to gain their riglits. .
Q. Did you make any answer .' -A. Ye.s, I replied there were ditterent ways to giiin their rights, the white settlers took a difl'eient way in having their grievances settled. He replied no one knew better than lie did as to the grievances of thtij .settlers. And he said : f and my people have time and time again jiotitioneil the ( !(»verilment to rtdress our grievances, and he said : The only answer we received each time han been an increase of jiplice. /^ j
^ I Q. He said they had time and time again petitioned the Uovernment foB -i*flre.ss, and the only answer they reeei\ed each time wius an increa.se of the police ? — Ai Yes.
Q. What next did he say? — A, He said ; Now T have my jmlijc-, referrii|ig to the uieii at the- door. '- ;
■'. Q. Those fiO or TD men .' -A. Yes. He pointed to them and he said : You .'<ee now have my poli^L-e. In one'week tjiat little (iovernmeut police will be wijied out of
I
existenc
my poliVe. ce.' ■ , \_^^
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Q. Well, what next? .\. .] believe, I .said, if he intended to attack tlie jiolice or Use a rebellion, they should look after the jirotection of the settler.s, there being no ill wdl among the.,jiet tiers towards the Half-breeds. . ;
Q. W'Imt next f A. He told me i was from Saskatoon, and as a settler from Saskatoon, t liad no light to speak for the welfare of the settlers, and charged the .settlers at Saskat<><^>n with having ottered to aid the mounted police, jit I'attleford, to put .<lo\vn an Indian j-ising last autumn.
Q. ll^'pK'at that.— ^A. Hi- said that 1, as a citizen of Saskatoon, had ito right to ask jjrotection, liecause... ■ r ■ .
Q. Because the people of Saskatoon had aideil the police ? -A. He said tliPy ofl'ered iii»-n tp kUl the Indians unil Half-breeds.
, Q. That Was the n/ason wily lie said the settlei's of Saskatoon liad no rig|it to pro- tection ? — A. He said : We will now show Saskatoon or the people of Sa.skatoOii who will do the killint,'.
/
Q. Oo.oir. — A. He made a stiitement as to my kno^ledgi- of his rebellibn, that is of the former reliellion in 1H70, and he said that lie was an American citizen living in Montana, and that tlie Half-in-eeds had sent- a deputation there to liring liiiii to this country.^ . _ ^ ■ . i
I ■■ -Q. Wha^ else ? -A. That in asking him to come they li-.id told their pjans, and •that he had replied to them to tlier ert'ect that their plans were useless,
I Q. Did he say \vhat the ])lans were ] — A. No, I believe not, but that he had told ' them _that he had plans, ami. that if they would _assi.st him to curry out those plans he would go with them.
j .Q.- Did he tell you what those plans were ? -A. Yes, he did. . v
I Q. What. were they ?— A. ..He said the time had now come when those pla^is were .liiature, that his prpdumation \^^ls at Pembina, and tliat aa. soon as he struck the fifst
lilow liere, tliat prnclaniation would go fortli, aiul lie was to lo? joined l>v Half-bi-eeds amr ■ Indians and tliat the United States was at liis baik.
Q. Did lie tell you anytliini; more ? -A. He said that kuowin;^ him and his \tast history, I niijjht know that he nieiuit what he saiil.
Q. Anythinj,' else ? — -A. He said that the time had lonie now when he was to rule / this country or perish in the atteiiipt.
Q. (Jo on. —A. We had a Ion;; conversation then as to the rights of the Halt'-l>n!«*ds ' and lie laid out his plans as to the ;;(>vernment of the eountry. ' !
Q. What did he say as to the government of tlie country ! A. Thev were, to have a new goveirnnient in tlie N'ortli-West. It was to Ke composed ofdwl fearing men, they would have.no .such parliament as the house at < )ttawa. '
Q. Anythii\g else ? -.\. Then he stated how he intended to divide the countr%' iljito .seven portions. '
Q. In what nianwer .' .V. It was divided into seven portions hut as to who were to have the seven, I caftuot say. -
Q. You mean to say you cannnr say how these seven weie to he apportionatecl f-^ ■A. Yes, he mentioned |!a\arians, Poles, Italians, (Jermans, Irish. .There was to he a. new Ireland in the Xortli We.st.
y. An,vthing more ? Did he say anylliiiii; ahoiit himself or his own plans ? A. I recollect nothing further at the jire.sent time.
Q. You say he referred to the previous veliellion of 1S70, what did he .say in regard ) ■ io that '! — A. He referred to that and he said that that rebellion, the rebellion of tifteen ^ jrears'ago, would not be a patch n]H>n this one.
Q. Did lie .say anything further with regard to that ! -A. He did ; he .spoke of the luiinber that had Ix'en killed in that rebellion.
Q. What did he say as to that ? — A. I cannot state as to what he Sivid, hnt it was .'to the etlect that this rebellion was to be of far gn^atcr e.vtent than the former.
Q. Did he speak to th(^ men who were there, or they to hiin when you were there ! — Ai There were several men there when the cutter drove up to the door. The majority of thein st<iye<l outside in the sleighs and some of them came in.
Q. Yes 1 — A. They spoke in French which I did. not understand \ery well, but I understood him to tell them to go down to Champagne's house, and I understood him to be sending them there : most of the men then drove of!" and a few sta.yed behind.
Q. You cannot .siiy what they asked him as your know ledge of frencli does not • enable you to repeat the (piestion they asked him 1 — A. No, I cannot say. /~'
Q. Now what did you do then ? Which le?t first, you or he ?— ^A. We had dinner.
Q. This conversation took place before dinner, or during dinner'f — A. Partly before, during and after dinner.
Q. You had dinner and what took place ne.\t ? — A. Riel prepared to go then to follow the others.
Q. Well, what next 1 — A. .tVs he was leaving he asked me, he stated personally he had no ill feeling towards me, but tliat I was a Canadian, but he put it in this w^ay : as a Canadian I was a part of the Canadian Government, and in our hearts there could be no friendship towards each other.
Q. ^Vell, did you go before or after him t — A. He left before me.
Q. Did he say where he was going 1 — A. No, he did not.
Q. What did you do ? — A. I left immediately after he did and went on towards .Clark's Crossing at the telegraph oi&ce.
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14
Q. For wliat puriK)se ? — A. To make known what I had heard. -':
Q. To whom ? — A. My iiiteutiou was to connnunicnte with Rej^ina, but when I {,'ot to Claries Crossini', the wire was down between Clark's (^'rossin;^ and Qu'Appelle. I
* Q. How far was it from Clark s (Jrossin;; tliat you had taken dinner ?— A. Soniet1iin<;
over 40 miles. ^ 1 >:
Q. Was that oi»,yoiir way to Saskatoon ? A. It was. ~ i
Q. Then you intended to communicate witli Regina, but wlien you got to Clark's Cl'ossing the telegraph was down ? — A. Yes. .'
\ Q. What did you do ?-~'A. The only communication was with Hattleford, and' I inf<>rnied Col. Morris. .,.._
Q. Who is Coi. Morrts ? — A. He was in charge of the police at Battleford at that, time. f .
Q. You informed him of what you had heard 1 — A- Yes.i. 1
Q. What was Mr. Welsh <lott»j*ltn this time ? Was he present at your conversation with Riel 1 A. He w^is.
Q. Did he, in Kiel's presence, tollyou uaything or not ? — A. .No, I lielieve not. Q. Have you told me your whole conversation with Riel lis far as you remember ? ' — A. I remember one point in regard to t)rangeisiii.
Q.^ What was that?— A. As Riel was leaving he expres.sed liti opinion, he .stilted tliey ■would have no oraugeism in the ?ft)i4ji-\Vest. I said I hoped by orangeism he did not mean 'Protestanti.sm. He turnfed excitedly and said he was giiid 1 liad mentioned it, that he certainly understowl the dirterence between Protestantism and orangeism, and he then spoke of the ditterent reHgions and l>eliet's and illustrated it by the example of a tree — the triM' church was the large branch of the tree, and the others, as they departed from it gtit weaker, up toj^lu* top of the tree.
-Q.- He illustrated his ideas of the different religious bodies in that way ? Have you told nie all you can reuiember of your conversation with him ? Whilst speaking of sending the telegram bust fall, ortei'ing to aid the police. . . . — ..V. Sending which telegram 't He stated the Saskatoon jieople that he bad been furnished with a copy of the telegram sent by the Saskato<in j)e(>ple to ISattlefoid last fall, otiering to kill oil' the llalf-breiHls and Indians, and that, in consei|uenci', the Saskatoon pcopje had no right to iV'k for tuiy pro- tection ; and that was not the only telegram thiv had .sent, that about 11 days before, I think, he .said that they had again made such an olier. [ mean that the people of Saskatoon had again niaile such an otter.
— Q. Now is there e\erytliing el.se he said to yoii that you can remember, or hive you told nre everything ? A. I believe I have told you everything. ' , ■;- ;
Q. You went back to Clark's (Jrossing, iuid conniiitnicatid what you; had h^ard, to Col. Morris, and from that time onwards, where were you .' — .\ I was at {Saskatoon and C'jurk's Cros.sing. . ' {
|Q. Then, do you know anything more of youi- ofrned knowledge of ttiel, i4 l-onuec- tioiil with, this rebellion. T mean not what you ha\e beard ? -A. No, I !knov" nothing further. ■ ' ■
-E.xamined by Mr. Fitzp.\ti!k:k. j ;
Q. . If I mistake not, you said you saw Riel for the tirst time, about the' month of November, l^!^<^2 — A. About November.
Q. Didjifiiu see hiiii for any length of time then ?— A. I did not. " '.■
I Q. JDid you — you never saw him again till the 17th of March, 1865?— A. I
•JjelifeVe not.
15 i^^ ' ■ . .
Q. During; tlmt interval of time, yon are aware tliere was an agitation going on tJirougliout that sci-tldn of conntry ] A. I was {>erfectly well aware of it.
Q. The first time you ever lieard of any reference to an appeal to arms in cojv with this aijitation, was during tliis interview, in March last, with Kiel ? — Ar^hat was til.' first I heard.
^l- Kiel was iiii^irmed on that occasion >, —A. He was.
«J. What ha-il he with him .' A. As lii>4j>ft the house
Q. I am speaking of tlie time you had th(! conversation in the house. Was he armed tlien ? — A. He was not arme<l at that time.
1 Q. VVlien you first liegau to talk witli Kiel, he first mentioned to you the fact tliat
I it now became m-cessary for all men to reflect that it was a good thing to live well? — ■ A. That was the first remark.
) Q. Shoi'tly after he made that remark he placed up and down the floor? A. That
WHS liefore he made the remark.
<^. Then, he liegan telling you ahout his intention to subdivide these provinces into sexcn '. A. He <lid not.
<^. lie told you lie intended giving the province of Quel)ec to the Pru.ssians or "i ilermans.' A. He did not.
I . t^. Oid he .say anytliing as to the manner he was going to divide, did he refer to the
1 Itiivarians, Hungsfrians and other jieoples ?--A. He did.
[ (^. What did he say he was goinj; to do with tliese people ? — A. They were going to
/ Jissist him in thi' lelnlliKU. liefore this war was ovei-, and that they would have their- |Mirtion of the country.
1<^. \\\ eimntry what did he allude to? A. The North West Territories. <4>. Exclu.--ively .' A. .\s 1 undeistood it.
I tj. Woiilil vfiu now indicate to. lis the diflerent peoples he e\pected to assist liim ! —
) A. The Irish nf the I'liitcd State>, the (iermans, the Italians, Bavarians and Poles, and . liernwTrraiid Inlanil.
<^>. Wf lia\e had (iermanyand Ireland twice? — A. Well, he put jt twice. He put the Irish and (Jermaiis of the I'nited States, then Germany itself was to come into line.
i i). The l>a\aiiaiis also .'- A. Yes.
!"• l^. The lliiiii;aiiaiis .' -A. I doni know. I don't Uelieve he said anything as to the
' Hungarians.
I (^>. The I'olr.-, did he intend to ;;i\c them a diance too? — A. He did.
<>. He alsii stated to you he was ijiviiig the .lews a jioition of the province ? — A. I Xot that 1 renu-mlier, lie <lid not nieiitidn them while I was there. j
<.,>. Did he e.\plain to you, at that time, as to what progress he had ijiade towards , coin|ileting iiegotiirtions he had had with these peoples for their assistance? — A. He did I not.
(j). You did not think it necessary to ask how he intended to carry out this agree- ment, or if he liad made any endeavors to have an understanding ahout tliis ? — A. I did.
<^>. What did he say about this ? A. I tried to find from him his plans, 'o get what information I could, and he seemed unwilling, he took good care to unfold none of his plans. /^ ' *•
Q. Y'ou said he had unfolded his plans as to sulxlividing the province 1 — A. Y'es.
Q. Did you then ask hinj if had entered into negotiations with these different peoples, in order to get their assistance 1 — A. No, I did not ask him that.
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Hi
Q. You'did not ask liiiii how he p.\j)ectp<l to get thcso people into tlio rountr\ either, did you ? — A. No, I did not. ,
Q. 'Don't you think that would have lieen a very necesjsary iiuestioii, to put in order t3 ,a;et at the hottoni of his plans ? — A. I believe not.
Q. You thauyht all liis plans were very reasonal)lf and acfcptable .' -.\. I had my own opiiiion regarding them.
Q. What is that o|)inio^, he good enough to let lis know it? ^ly opinion at that time was that that was about the last that would be heard of H.
Q. You never had heard anything of these plans liefore ? — A. From him i
Q. From liim or aiiyone else ? — A. Nothing of tliat kind with regard to this country.
Q. In regard to the plan he submitted to you, did you evei- hear ot su^li a plan before ?■ — A. No,. I never did. / ' ■.
Q. Did it stike you as being at all peculiar I \. Katlier a little.
Q. When he spoke to you on religious subjects, did yon understand liiin to tell ymi tliaf, in his religion, Christ was the foundation, and lepiesented the trunk of the tree, and the different religions might be considered as representing the lu-am-lies <if the ti'ee ! -• , A. I did. \ ■
., Q. Did he .'^y what position he occupied with reftienee to the tiunk or; with reference to Christ ? — A. He stated his Church was the strongi'st branch. r
Q. During all this tiuis, during all this conversation, I think you stated Mr. Welsli was present, was he riot ?— A. He was.
Q. Where is ilr. Welsh now ? — A. I believe he is at Fort (Ju'.\pj>elle.
Q.. That is about 40 miles from here? — A. About 50 miles.
Q. When you .said Mr. lliel explained, liis religion was the strDUgest branch, diil In- say what liis religif)n was ? — A. He did, he. said the Roman Catholic Church.
Q. He did not say anything fui-ther than that about his religion ? — A. No.. >
Q. Did he speak anything about the Pope ? — A. No» 1 believe not. Nothing that J can remember. .v
Q. You don't remember anything further of this conversatiq^i with Riel, except what you have stated ?^A. I remember nothing further.
Q. Of course, the plans he unfolded to you about the con(|uest^)f the North-'West, did not strike you as anything extraordinary |or a man in his position to assert ] — A. It did certainly. ,
Q. It appeared to you a very rational proposition 1 — A. No, it did iot.
E.xamined by Mr. Robinson.
Q. You said Riel was not armed in the house, did 30U .see him arnuCl at all ? — A. I saw him armed as he drove off from the liou.se, he was supplied with a gub as he got inta ,the sleigh. ' ' ' y
Q. Do j'ou know by whom he was supplied with a gun? — A, No, I don't know. I could not say by whoni it. was given him.
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I
TiiOM.\s Mackay, sworn, examined by Mr. Robinson.
Q. Mr. Mackay, where do you live ? — A. Prince Albert.
Q. You were born in this country ? — A. Yes.
j Q. How long have you lived in Prince Albert 1 — A. I have been in Prince Albert 'district since July, 1873. f
17
Q. You reiueiiiluT, of course, the disturlwince which took jilace in March last?- — A. Yes.
Q. Can you tell me when you first heard of that and when you first took any' part in conset|uence of it'! — A. 1 had heard of tlie ajjitation for some time in the early part of March, 1 heard that the jirisoiier was inciting tlie Half-breeds tp take up arms.
y. Well?- -A. On the morning of the liOtli, Captain Motfatt and Captain Moore came to my house, between two or thretj. o'clock in the moniins;, and they brought a lettei' fro^n Major Crozier, stating that he had been informed on good authority that the French, under tln^ leadership of the prisoner, luul risen and taken\Mr. Lash and some other prisoners, and had robbed the stores of ^^'alters and Daker and Kerr Brothers. He also, in the same conimunii. .ion, asked for a detachment of some GO to 70 volunteers to go up ' to reinforce the police, at Fort Carlton.
' Q. Well .' — A. I went down to t!ie town and went to a numl>er of the people there
and told them what we had heard, and asked them to meet us, in James Elliott's rooms, iu town. We met there and decided — we thought that we could not spare the number/pf men, as we had to look aftei' the town and our families. — We went out with something like 40 men. Captain Moore enrolled 40 men, and we started about twa o'clock in the afternoon of that day.
Q. For what place ■' — .-V. Fort Carlton.
y. How far was Fort Carlton from Prince Albert?- — A. Between 40 and .^O miles.
I,). When did you get to Carlton N- A. We arrived to Carlton between ten and elven that uight.
g. What day was that ?— A. The 20th. , / '
Q. Fort Carlton was then held liy a force of Mounted Police, under Major Crozier .' —A. "Yes.
-^ Q. You reported to him 1 — A. Yes, reported to him.
Q. Hill you remain there that night? — A. When I arrived there, I found Mr. Mitchell, from 'i)uck Lake, was at Fort Carlton. He had a letter from Mr. Kiel, I lielieve. 'i'lie letter, I think, was regarding the surrender of Fort Carlton.- 1 did- not see '■* When 1 left Prince .Vlbert, I had decided to go on to Batoche, where the rebels had
ide their headiiuarters. When I found Mitchell there, he asked me to go along with
m, that I might be of some usi>.
y. For what purpose , did you decide to go to Batoche? — A. To seeTf^l could point out to them the danger they were getting into in taking up arms. 1 knew a great many of them were ignoi*a^it and did not know what they wei-e dping, anil I thought I might induce them to dispense. I went to see if 1 could be of any use in preventing any outrage. An hour after I got there, I went to Duck Lake,and we found two or three of Kiel's men there, Joseph and Baptiste Arcand. They had come from Batoche to meet Mr. Mitchell. I had n long conversation with them, and I invited them and tried to induce them to drop the movement. I told them at the same time I had enrolled as a volunteer, that I was one of the tirst to put my name down as a volunteer, and at the same time I told them that any thing they should say, 1 should report to the Conniianding Officer, and' if there was anything they did not wish me to hear, they should prepare .themselves accordingly. After an hour or two of con\ersation witli them, they went on to report at their head ijuarters, that I was coming with Mr. ^Mitchell.
Q. They went before you to report that you were coming-'l — A. Y'es.
Q. Wliat took place ? — A. We arrived at the river about eight or nine o'clock in the ' nioniing.
Q. You had travelled all night ? — A. Yes.
, Q. You did not arrive that night ? — A. No ; when we got to the fiver I found a
, I . ■ 18
number of .arinetl men around Walter A- Baker's store. A eentrv hailed us and took us to the guard.
Q. How many armed men did you find?— A. Twohe or fifteen- out.side. Tliere were .some more in the store, ■ .
' -vQ. They took you to the f,'uard ?— A. Tliere was a sentry ahout fifteen to twenty
%.. yards on this side of the store.
Q. Did he stop you ? — A, He stof)ped us and took us on.
. Q. I)id you know his name? — A. No.
i ' Q. AVhei-e did lu' lake you to ? — A. To tlie j,'uard tiiat was stationed around Walter •t Baker'.s store.
Q. Well ? — A. Philip Guardupuy came out and said he was deputed to show us across tile river.
Q. You were then on the Nortliside of the river t — A. Yes. He f;ot into the slei^li and took us across to their council room.
Q. Where was their council room ?^- A. The council room at that tinie, was a little building just south of the church. I do not know whom it belonged to. It is liurned down now. It was just near the cliurch. •
Q. Whom did you find in the council room /i— A. A number of men.
Q. Armed ? — A. Yes, they were armed.
Q. These twelve or fifteen men you liave referred to, were they armed ! — A. Yes. Philippe (ruardui)uy was not armed, but the rest were. We went into the council room, and I went around the table and among them, and finally was introduced to the prisoner. That wa.s the tirst time I had seen him.
■' Q. Where were you introduced to him ? — A. In the council rooni.
■Q. "^ou say that was the first time you had seen hiiu 1 — A. Yes. ,
Q.' Who were in tiie council room when you were introduced to him ?-^A; Quite a number. They were moving in and out.
Q. Would you say there was a dozen men in the room .* — A. Yes ; more than tliat_
. - Q. Who introduced you to the prisoner? — A. Mr. Mitchell intro<luced me to Mr- •. Riel, as one ofyfter Majesty's soldiers.
Q. That i^ Mr. Hilliard Mitchell?— A. Yes. I shook hands with' Mr. Riel and had a talk with him. I said : There appears to be great excitement here, Mr. Riel. He said : No, there is no excitement at all, it was simply that the people were trying to redress their grievances, as they had asked repeatedly for their rights, and that they had decided to make a demonstration. I told him that it was a very dangerous thing to resort to arms. He said lie had been waiting fifteen long years, and that they had been imposed uiion, and it was time now, after they had waited patiently, that their rights ^sliould be giveji,_ivs the poor Half-breeds had been imposed upon. I disputed his wisdom and advised hiui to adopt different measures.
Q. Did he jspeak of himself at all in the matter ? — A. He accused me of having neglected my people. He said, if it was not for men like me, their grievances would have been redressed long ago. That, as no one took any interest in these people, he had de- • "cidetl to take the lead in the matter.
Q. Well ] — A. He accused me of neglecting them. I told him it was simply a mat- ter of opinion. That I had certainly taken an interest in them, and my interest in the country was the same as theirs, and that I. had advised them time and again, and that I had not neglected them. I also said that he had neglected them a long time, if he took as deep an interest as he professed to. He became very excited, and got up and said :
.19
I
You don't know what we are after — it is blood ! blood ! We want blood ! It is a war of «xterniination ! Everybody, that is against us is to be driven out of the country. There were two curses in the country, the government and the Hudson Bay company.
Q. Yes ? — A. He turned to nie and said I was a ti-aitor to his t;overnment. That I was a speculator and a scoundrel and robber and thief, dnd I don't know what all.
Q. He used very \ iolent language to you ?^— A. Yes. He finally said it was blood, and tlie first blood, they wanted was mine. There were some little dishes on the table,' and he got hold of a s])oon and said : You have no blootl — you are a traitor to your people. Your blood is frozen, and all the little blootl you have will be there in five minutes, putting the spoon up to my face and pointing to it. I said : If you think you are benefitting your cause by taking my blood you are (piite welcome to it. He called his i)eople and the committee, and wanted to put me on trial for my life, and Garnot got up and went to the table with a sheet of paper, and CJal)riel Dumont took a chair on a syrup keg, and Kiel called up the witne.sses against ine. He said I was a liar, and he told them that 1 had said all the people in that section of the pountry had ri.sen against them. He said it was not so, that it was only the people in tliis town. He said he could prove that I was a liar by Thomas Scott.
Q. Was Thomas Scott there ? — A. Yes ; he 'said so'.
Q. Well ? — A. He called for tJarnot, the secretary, and called for the witnesses, and they would a.sseut to what he said.
Q. Which of the two Arcands was there ? — A. Baptiste. He was putting words to their moutlis, saying things I did not understand at all. " When I saw what he was driv- ing at, I said : I am heie, and if you wish to liear uie speak for myself I will do so. I said : There is no necessity for Mr. Kiel telling what I have to say. If you wish to hear me I will speak, and if not, I won't. They said yes. I said, 'Mv. Kiel, I suppose youii understand Cree ! He said yes. I did not si)eak French, and I said : I will speak inl Cree. I spoke in Cree. • *
Q. You spoke in Cree and told them what vou have said ? — A. Yes, and what hjid occurred. Champagne got up and said 1 told them Riel was threatening to take my life. Isaid if you think by taking my life you will benefit your cause you are welcome to do so. He said no, they did not wish anything of that kind. They wanted to redress their grievances in a constitutional way. Riel then got up and said he had a committee meeting of importance going on upstairs, and he went upstairs.
Q. Did he return ? — A. I spoke to them for quite a while, and he occasionally came down and i)ut his hoail down stairs and said I was speaking too loud, that I was annoying their committee meeting. When 1 said what I had to say, I asked for some- thing to eat, that I was pretty hungry, I got something, and after I got through, there was a lot of blankets in the corner, and I laid down there till Mitchell was ready. ■
Q. Where was ^litchell at the time 1 — A. Up stairs. When he got through he came down with the prisoner, and I told him to wait awhile, and we left for Fort Carlton. Wlien he came down, he, Riel, apologised to me for what he had said, that he did not mean it to me personally, that he had the greatest respect for me personally, but that it was my cause he was speaking against and he wished to show he entertained great respect for me, he also apologised in french to the people there, and he said as I was going out that he was very sorry I was against him. That he would be glad to have me with them, and it was not too late for me to join them yet. He also sdid this was Crozier's last opportunity of averting bloodshed, that unless he sun-endered Fort Carlton, an attack would be made at 12 o'clock.
Q. He said if Major Crozier did not suiTender, the attack would be made at 12 o'clock that night? — A. Yes.
Q. Was there anything more 1 — A. That was all I had to do with him then and I then left.
V
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./
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20
Q. What dkl you then do?^A. I went to Carlton.
Q. That would have Ueen on the nioraiiig of tlu; "Jlst ? -A. Yes.
<j. About what time? — A. One or two in the aftt'rnoon of the "Jlst.
Q. What happened on the way ? -A. I met a uunilier of aimed peopli' i-oniin^' into Batoehe.
<J. How far from Batoehe ? — A. Alwut two mrles.
Q. -You met a number of armed peojde in sleij^hs ? -A. Yi*s, in slfij^hs, Iiidiuus and Half-breeds. (
(j. Indians from what reserve? — A. I did not reoo^nize tlie Indian.s.
Qj How uiaiiy sleiglis full? — A. Five or si.\ I met on the road. I spoke to them, I kiiew two or three of the men who wore there. I askeii them what all this was about, they jdnjped out of the sleifjlls and shook hands with me, and told me they had been sent for and taken Ijy Albert Monkuuin who wais driving the team.
Q. How many altogether wer*^ there? — A. In one slei;.;h there were five, and, I think, in another there were six. Altogether thei-e must have been I'U or !'.">.
Q.! Were they all armed ? -A. I could not say, beeause they wen? sittini; down. I saw rirtes and guns along with them.
<^. Yoa went liaek to Carlton ? — .V. Yes. ' ^
.Q. Did you meet ijiany men on the way ? — A. That is all we met on the road. When we j^ot to l)uck Like, there was a trail coming from ti.e eau an-.l west, and we saw. some sleighs pa.s.sing llieie and some sleighs pa>5sing along the Lake.
Then when did voii ''i-t to Duck Lake or to Carlt':
itlier? — A. About four
. Q.
o'clock
Q. What was your object ill returning to Carlton .' -.\. 1 was Just returning. .Xs I. was just goin.:; aw.iy from the council ro(jm, I overt/iok Emmanuel Champagne, he was walking "along the road with . I ackson, who was with Kiel at that time. i toM him to get into the rig and I thanked him for tiie siand he had talien. l.Hold him if 1 could be of service to him in any' way 1 would never forget the services he had remlered me. He told me then they had decided to .send two men to Major Crozier, but tiiey weie afraid of treachery, that they were afraiiT they would be arrested, i .saicl you need not be afraid 1 will Ik- one of the party tliat w ill come out, and you may tell them they will not be interfered with at all. When we got to Carlton, Mitchell delivered the letter to Major Crozier, and I think it was ask'fj^ him to meet him half viay some time that njglit,'"alul that Riel did not ciioose to 'meet Major Crozier himself, but that he ha<l sent two inen. t- "
C^. Did you ,^o as- I'epresenting Major Crozier ? — A.- Y'es. About an hour after we had resiched there, Charle.'fi^olin ami Maxime Lepine came up driving in a cutter. We were mounted. We told them what Major Crozier iiad said, that they should give us . the.nalmes of the leaders of the movement, and that they would have to answer to the law, l)Ut that a great many of them who had lieen forced into the movement, that they should be dealt leniently with. Nolin said Riel and his council denninded the uncon- ditional surrender of Fort Carlton and nothing else would satisfy them, and if they did so, no harm would be done them, that they would give a safe-cOnduct home. We said there was no use discussing the inatter at all as we said the matter could not be enter- tained at all, that all we had to say was to advise them to disperse and go home, and that the leaders of the movement would have to be answerable to the law. He then said he had a letter which he was told to hand us, that it would lie no use to hand it, as Fort Carlton was not to be surrendered. I thanked them for the stand they had taken .when I had been there that morning and I returned to Carlton.
^21
Q. Is tlii»t all that passed between you and Capt. Jloore, and Xoliu and Lepine ? — • A. Yes.
Q. Then what did you do ?— A. We returned to Carlton.
Q. How long did you remain there? — A. I remained there till the 24th.
Q. You had ;;ot as far as the 'J^rd. You gave me an account of your interview in tlie council chainher — of your trial, you spoke of Gafiiot; Philippe (tariiot, I think, you said? — A. Yos, PliilippetJarnot.
Q. What capacity (lid he act in ? —A. As secretary.
Q. Of the council ? -A. Yes, tukinj^ notes of the evidence.
Q. Which was given against you ? »-A. Yes.
Q. Well, did any one ask him to act ? — A. Riel called for the secretary and then ■Onruot came forwartl.
Q. And took his seat at the table ? -A. Ye.s, as secw^tary of the council.
Q. Now on the 2 1st vou got liiick to Carlton, how long did you remain there ? — A. till the lUth.
Q. What did you do then ? -A. On tlif night of the 24th, between ten and eleven o'clock, Crozier asked me to go and see if I could hear anything of Major Irvine.
Q. Was he expected ? — A. We heard that he left Regiiui with reinforcements, but nothing had been heard of him.
Q. You heard that he had left Regina ? — A. That he was to leave at a certain time.
Q. And notliing had been heard of him up to that time ? — A. Yes.
Q. ()n the 24111 Crozier asked you to go and see if you couhl tind anything about him ? — A. I .started Jtnd took tlie trail to Prince Albert, the wire was tapped about half •way between Hatoche, t.o see if anything liad been heard of him at Pi-inte Alliert, before going any furtlier. Wh<-n about 23 miles out from Carlton, I met two messengers with a note for Crozier ; I opened the note and found that it was a note from in.spector Motlatt, stating tiiat he heard he was at the south branch, and that he.expected him back that night, I found out that he had reached Prince Alliert"; I saw him and told him that I ' \vas sent by major Crozier. I tlieu returneil to Fort Carlton,- travelling all night and got into Carlton about four o'clock in the aft(aMioon.
Q. With Col. Irvine ? — A. No, I left liim. They had made a march that day of about .seven miles, and he did not know'whether he could make Carlton that day from tlieie.
Q. You returned to Carlton ? — .\. Yes.
■ Q. You got there between'three and four o'clock ?— A. Between four atud five.
(}. ICaviiiit gone out and got tidings of Col. Irvine vou returneil at thai time ? — A.
Yes. 'v.
Q. What did you do ne\t ? -A. I overtook a messenger with a note from Col. Ir\-ine to Crozi^^r, .saying that he could not leave that day, that Ive would the ne.\t, the 26tli. I had been, travelling all night and turned in early; after I turned in, I was told that Crozier wanted to send .sergeant Stewart with teams, and an escort for the purpose of get- ting .some proxisions and Hour from the store belonging to Mitchell, at Duck Lake, and that he wanted me to accompany the party, and we were to start at four o'clock the iiext morning, that would be the 26th. The next morning came and we got up and got ready, sergeant Stewart sent out an advance guard of four men on ahead towards Duck Lake, to see if the road was clear ; we followed witli the teams and sleighs. 1 was riding on about a quarter of a mile ahead of the teams looking out. When I got within three or four juiles of Duck Liike, I noticed on the road some jieople lying in the snow, there we^e
! 22 •, ' . '
marks, I t&ok them to be Indians. I noticed them connniinicatiug tlie signal by walking
. backwai^ls and forward ; I suspected they were watching the trail. I got to within about
a mile and a lialf of Duck Lake ; there is a ridge there a little to the north of the mail
station ; when I got there I saw some mounted policemen, riding at a full galop, and
immediately after them there were some mounted men, following them ; I wheeled around
and rode back as haa'd as I could make my horse go. Then? was a hill about a ((uarter
of a mile away, I wanted to gefto before they came. When I got within sight of the
men I threw up my hands and told them to prepare and get their riHe.s ready. I told
them that they^were following the Mounted police. I told them to get their rilles, and said
' not to fire," whatever tliey do, I can ride out and if they want to lire they can have the
' first chance at me and you can defend yourselves. They were coming round the bluff, they
^ were jiretty close to the iiieii, 1 saw they would overtake them, I knew they were excited,
so I rode out as hard as I could, they then hauled up all but one man who came right
on and who never hauled up at all, it was Patrick Fiary. I asked them what they were
about. Thej* said : What are you about f 1 said that we were going to Duck Lake, to get
Jlitchell's i)rovisions. Tliey said there were a great many there. . 1 asked whether they
■ were at Duck Lake, they said yes. Tln-y said we had better go back. 1 turned around
and went towards the sleighs, as I was getting near to the sleighs, a party of perhaps ."10
or 40 of -them very excited, came upon us; they were yelling and flourishing their ritli's ;
they were very excited, (iabrid Dumont was of the l)arty ; he was very excited, jumped
off his horse and loaded liis riHe and cocked it, anil came up to me and threatened to blowi
out my brains, he, and some othei's threaten'ed to use tlieir rifles ; I told them to be ijuite,
that two could play at the game, Dumont talked very wildly, he wanted' us to surrender.
Jle siiid it was my fault that the ])eople were not assisting them, and that I was to blame
for all the troulile. I told him that we could not surrender, that I thought we hail the
best right to this ))roperty. Some of them jumped oil' their horses and went into tho
sleighs. 1 rode uj) and told \\ie teamster to hold on to his horses. They made one or two
attempts to snatch the lines, Hnally he fired his rille ovim- our heads ; they ij^ll stcpjied oft'
.'the roail and we wt'nt on the road to Cailton.
Q. Had any of the men got into the sleighs ?— -^. Two of tlieni went into one sleigh,, and tliey went to a second team to try and get the lines.
Q. Then there was nothing, but the one shot tired ? — A. That is all.
Q. You returned to Carlton 1 —A. Yes.
Q. How many teams- had you on that occasion ? — A. f^even or eight.
V^Q- How many policenien ? — A. A policeman in each team, sergeant Stewart and iome others.
Q. How many altogether? — A. L> or 16 ; there wei-e 22 of us altogether, l/) police- men, I think...
Q. You returned to Carlton 1 — A, Yes.
' Q: W'hat time did you get there 1 — A. About ten o'clock.
Q. Ii/TTie morning ? — A. Yes. ' '
Q. What did you do then ? — A. As we returned to go back sergeant Stewart sent a man to report what had taken place.
Q. You had sent in a man in advance to report what had taken ]ilace ? — A. Y'es.
■ Q. Well ? — -A. When we got near Carlton, we met an advance guard coming out of Carlton, there were a Mundjer of teams, they were coming 'out of Carlton, and we wheeled arodnd'and went oixt with them.
Q. Who was in command of that party ? — A. Major Crozier.
- Q. How many were there ?— A. 99.
i
23
X
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I Q. How nviiiy constables ? — A. 56.
Q. Of the party that tirst met you the time you turned back you stated there were 30 or 40 ?— A. Yes.
Q. How iiiauy were Indians and how many were Half-breeds ? — A. There were_ some Indians and sonus Half-breeds, I cannot tell you the jiroportion at all, 1 was not paying much attention, I kept my eyi'S on Jim Owen and one or two others.
Q. You met the advance guard coming out of Carlton, in all there were 99 ? — A. Yes.
Q. Major C'rozier was in command ? — A. Yes.
Q. Were there any sleighs ? — ^A. Yes.
Q. How were the men ' — A. Some niountetl and some in sleighs.
Q. AVhat is the distance from Carlton to Duck Lake? — A. Aliout 14 miles.
Q. Did you Join and go back with them ? — A. Yes, the whole party.
Q, This would be on the L'Gth ? — A. Yes. We went until we came to a house, about four miles from Duck Lake, when the advance returned and rejiorted that there were . some Indians in the house. I believe it was Beardy's house. He was in the house.
Q. Was it ui>on his reserve ? — A. Yes. "^
Q. Well ] — A. Tiie interpreter went over and he came back again. "I do not know what occurred bet\» een them. We went on and when we got to the same place where I returned back that morning;, we .saw the advance guard coming over the hill, in tlie same way as in the morning. -
Q. Was the advance retiring ? — A. Yes, at the same place as in the morning, and there was a nuudjer of men following them.
Q. Aliout how many t — A. I cannot tell you, they were coming over the hill and they were scattered all along the road ; there ajipeared to bfe (juite a numlier of them. Major Ci-ozicr told us to unhitch the horses and make a ban-icsitle, and take the horses to the rear, when they came near ; within half a mile, they made use of a blanket a.s a flag.
•Q. White blanket? — A. Yes. Crozier went out and called liis interpreter, and •'the two parties came near each other. Tiiey began to talk ; in thV meantime, they were running on the road getting liehind us and behind the hills.
Q. They were changing tlieir positions 1 — A. Yes.
Q. Well, what then ? — A. While placing the sleighs, T hestrd someone calling out that they were liring upon us, and let thenr liave it. I said : Wait till we get hurt. Just then, I turned my head kind of that way and saw Major Crozier lift his hand in the direction the liring was from and he said : Fire now. And the tiring began then, and there was tjuite a skirmish for thirty or forty minutes after that.
Q, How long did it last ? — A. Thirty or forty minutes. I did not take time in con- sideration.
Q. How many were killed on your side ! — A. We left ten men upon the tiejo, but one of them was wounded and turned up afterwards.
Q. Who was that ?— A. Newett.
Q. The other nine t — A. Were dead. One mounted policeman was killed and several were wounded, two died just after we got to Carlton.
Q. You brought two back with you ? — A. One, the others died after we got back to Carlton.
Q. What time did you get back to Carlton ,' — A. It must have been about four ock in the afternoon.
24
Q. How many were killed on the otlier side, you did not know at the time ? — A. No. j
Q. Puring the engagement, liow many men would you judge to lie engaged upon the
other side ? — A. We could not see them. I cannot tell that; some were in the house, some
were Ij^TiidlJlfe' hills. There were two sleighs with two Indians in each liehindus, and
one Indian who was mounted ; that was the Indian that was talking to. Major Crozier.;
, he was killed when the firing' l)egan.
Q. Would your ohservations- eiiahle you to say how many were engaged upon the other side ? — A. The road -seemed to be pretty well covered with them.
Q. Can yO!i form any idea as to the number? — A. The road was straight and they seemed to. cover a "greater space than we covered, but I cannot say as to the nuinl>er ; they seemed to cover a greater space that we did.
Q. You caiuiot say the proportions of Indians and Half-breed.s ? -A. I cannot say. I saw live Indians, these Indians got behind us, one of them was killed.
~' : Q. You di^ not recognize any of the people that were there ?: — A. I did not recognize any j)erson. J • "»
Q. — -You returned to Carlton and got there about four oV-loek. - A. Yes.
Q. What (lid you do tlien ? —A. Tliey were .some time attending tlie wounded. Col. Irviiie got in al)out an hour aft<-r wi- got in and 1 think it was tiiat afternoon or the next morning that he decided to leave Carlton and go down to Prince Albert.
- Q. Did you go with him ? — A. Yes.
<^ Was Carlton burned ? -A. Ye.s, I believe it took tire accidently and part of it was burned then.
Q. He decided to evacuate Carlton with his forces ? -A. Yes.
y. And retired on Prince Albert ? .V. Yes. ^
t^. Wliat distance is that ?— A. 40 or .'iO miles.
■ ^ Q. Did you go with him to Princ-e Alliert ? -A. Yes. \
Q. Wiiat day w.»s that ? — A. We left on the morning of tlie 2Hth, about one or two o'clock, and we got down that evening.
Q. You remained at Prince Albert during the rest of the lebellion ? -.\. Yes.
i). You have told me all you kjiow aliout it? — A. Yes, there may be .siimething that I have omitted. When Mitchell introduced me to the prisoner, he asked Mitchell whether , -I came of my ijRvn accord or whether, I came with him. When he heard I came with him, he s;iid I was epititled to the same protection as he was, but if I came of my own accord, lie would look after me, or something of that kind. The prisoner .said I was entitled to the same protection as he was.
Q. Is there anything else that you ri'niend)er 1 — A. No, 1 cannot remend>er every thing that tix)k plii<e. I <lo not remendier anything el.se.
By Mr. (iHKKNsniKMi.-;. ■ .
Q. The Hitst time that you met the prisoner was in the council chamber ? —A. Yes.
Q. And before tliat you never saw him ? -A. No.
<j. Nor did you see him after that till in court?— A. I saw him in court, when he ■ was first brought into court.
Q. You had no conversation nor did you .see bini from that time till his surrender to General Middleton ? A. No.
Q. Y(flW|^ver had any personal ijuarrel or trouble with him before ? — A. No, I never had any ftoniniunication with him.
(/
25 , --•
Q. Did he appear excited wlieu you were introduced 1>y Mitchell?— A. Xo, not at tlie timer A while after he became excited.
Q. How long after was it till he got excited ? — A. I cannot tell.
Q, Five or ten minutes ? — A. Perliaps a tjuarfer of an liour.
Q. During that interval you were talking with him all the time? — A. He went away for a Httle while, and then he came hack again. He went up.stairs aud came hack •again.
Q: Tell lis what he said when you were tir.st introduced and shook haiids with him. Did he speak first or did you ? — A. I spoke first. 1 told him that we would slvake hunds ■or something to that effect, and he said yes.
Q. Now, what did you first hpgin to talk with him ahout ?— A. I told him, 1 said : Tliere appears to lio great excitement here. He said no excitement at all, everything was rjuiet, or something like that.
i-i. You said .something ahout his liaving spoken aliout wanting to get their jrriev" aiices redressed .' -A. YeS: I think 1 .said there .seemed to lie,a numher of men armed> and he said that tliey had heen asking for tlieir rights for fifteen years, and they had not heeii gr^ited, and they had decided to/make a demonstration.
Q. Did you have any conver.saffon as to what the rights were ?- A. No, I had not ■with him.
Q. Whom did you talk ahout it with ? — A. The rest of the people that were in.'
Q. That is,.the council ? -A. Yes.
Q. What was their statement to you regarding their rights? — A. They did r^bt seem to know — tliat they were entitled to .scrip and never got it.
(J. Did they sjieak f>f having made any petition to the'tJoverntiieut for their rights? — A. Yes. We diseu.ssed the matter. I had taken part my.self in the petition that we Sent forward, and knew more ahout it than they did. It came out in this way, liaUriel Dumont .said that I had taken no interest in the matter hefore; that I never advised them ; that it was only now, when matters had gone so far, that I advised them in the matter.
i.^. That was r(^]iroaching you hecause you had lieen in.strumental in getting the riglits of the Half-hreeds — the English Half-hreeds ? — A. We were entitled to scrip, hut ve never got it yet.
Q. Have you got it since,? A. No. . ,
Q. There is a commission sitting now i — A. Yes. •. ;
y. Riel said that the only answer they got to every petition wu^ an increase of police? — A," No.
i). What was on the tahle when you went into the council chamher ? — A. Some tin dishes and some spoons, .some fried hacon ,and some hannocks.
< >. Any hlood in tiie dishes ? -A. No. I did not see any.
i}. Will you swear that tliere was not ? Will you swear that .sonte of tliem were not eating cooked hlood at the time ? — A. Not that I saw.
Q. How long after the conversation with him did he use the words "he wanted- blood"?— ^V. He left me and came hack again, it was then he said it.
Q. Was he in a v^y excited state of mind when he talked ahout l)lood ? — A. He. Iiecame very excited. IN:old him that I did not think that ho had adopted a wisej-ajr 4o redress their grievance. 'i*( '
Q. In what position was he at tliat time ?— A. Standing striking the table. •
1 ' ' . J 2(ii
■ ' - v
(/. What d«l the prisoner say. to you when Mitchell stated you were entitled to the- . same protection as Mitchell was 1 — A. It was Kiel said that, not Mitchell.
Q. Didn't he say you were at liberty to return ? — A. He said I was entitled to the ' same protection as Mitchell.
Q. You did not go as you jileased? — A. Yes, I did.
Q. Was tliat before, or after the conversation about the blood took place ; was it before Riel liad told you he wanted blood and that you were free to go? — A. It was be- fore I had any conversation with hiin at all.
Q. The Hrst thing he did on being introduced to you was to assure you that you were at liberty ?~A. Yes.
Q. You had no fear but that you were at perfect liberty to returii ? — A. It did not ni^e any difference to me.
Q. After telling you that you were at perfect liberty he spoke to'you of his desirfe for bloo<l ? — A. Yes, certaiidy.
Q. Did you have any other conversation with him that day ? — A. He said what I said at the time he went upstairs. He went up, and he would occasionally put his head througli and say that I was s|>eaking loo loud. After he came down he a|)ologize<l, and said lie had great resjiect for me personally, but it was my causp.
■ Q. On. the whole he treated you civilly ? — A. No; he made use of language to nie that wa.s np\ er before u.sed to me.
Q. l)id he have any coiivereation with you as to the object of the rebellion ? — A. He said they wanted their rights. I
Q. Did he tell vou anything about the administration of the North-West Territories I —A. No. " , __
Q. Aljout a new Church ; — A. No. •
Q. No conversation about either of these matters ? — A. No.
Q. When he calleil for blood was it after he went down 1 — A. He went away and canje back and called for blootl.
Q. And then he went upstairs ? — A. Yes.
Q. When he came down the ne.\t time he apolo;;ised for the language use<l 1 — A. Yes.
Q. Shortly after that you went away ? — Yes.
His Honoh. — Any juror that desires to ask the witness any question is at liberty to do so.
John W. AsTLEY. sworn, examined by Mr. IJurbridge. ,■ [
Q. You resT3e at. Prince Albert ?^A. Yes.
Q. How long ha\'e you resided there 'I — A. About three years.
Q. What is your occupation ? — A. Civil Engineei-, Land Surveyor and Explorer.
Q. In March last you were employed by Major Crozier 1 — A. I left with volun- teers to go to Carlton.
Q. How were you employed ? — A. As volunteer, and then I was used as a scout.
Q. What time in March? — A. About the 18th March.
■ Q. How long were you a scout ] — A. I was scouting through the French Kettlft-^
r
^ . 27
meats, the Half-breed settlements and the reserve till two o'clock on the iiiorniiig of the- 26th.
Q. Were you alone ?^- A. Part of the time. Part of the time H. Ross was witli me.
Q. You posted a j)roclamation t — A. Yes, I posted a proclamation from Crozier, telling those who had been forced into rebellion that if tliey gave themsel\;es into the charge of the police they would be protected. I posted those as far as Le[)ine's and back by the other road, in the most conspicuous places where I thought there would be a chance of their being .seeit, one in English and the other in French. I noticed in passing the road afterwards that these notices were nearly all torn down. 1 went over the road- on the morning of the 36th, to see if the French Half-breeds were trying to intercept Major Crozier. Rcss was with nie. We were about the place where the battle took l)lace. I was about thirty or forty yards ou aliead of Ro.s.s, an^ an Indian suddenly Jumped alongside of me and pointed his ritle or shot gun -at my l>reasf. I turned arouiitl to see if my p irtner was pris>uer to.i. I saw that he w.is, ajid that there was sonm .sixteen or twenty of them all aiuied, and, as he was captured first, I thought it was be>t to give up <iuietly.
Q. Who appeai'ed to be the leader of the party? — A. Gabriel Duniont. Then- were abiiut 10 or L'O of them, part Half-breeds and jiart Indians. We were taken to Duck Lake and put in the Telegraph otiice till the morning, and an armed guard was placed outside the. building that night. Albert Monkman seemed to be in charge of Duck Lake at that time.
Q. How many men would be at Duck Lake at that time? — A. f^O or 100, that i>, takiug into consideratiim those who were acting as outside gtiard. lu the morning we were removed upstairs, in what had been ilitchell's house.
(^. During that day did anymore come in? -A. Alter we were placed ui)stuir>, about noon or shortly before, a lot of Half-l)reeds and Soiue Indians came from Ratoche witli the prisoner in coiinnand, that would be some tiiue aiiout noon.
Q. The accused was in conunand, how did you come to that conclusion? — A. That morning he interviewed me and Ross, and talked to us ; he brought Bourget with Jiim, ' he seemed to have control and asked the questions. I was down stairs afterwards for a few uiinutes, and I saw the pri.soner beckoning to the nuni to tall in line, and they fell in line.
Q. He was giving commands ? — A. Ye.s. -•
(). After they were reinforced how many men liad they altogether^ — A. I should say about 400, takiug both Indians and Half-breeds.
(}. How many Indians? — A. About l-'iO Indians altogether.
Q. Did you see any of the prisoners on the 26th ? -A. Lash, Tompkins, .Simpson, JIcKean and Woodcock were brought up into the same room. We heaixl some report of Mackay having come near the building, and being ordered back by Duniout. In the afternoon, looking towards the west, we noticed them running towards Carlton." Shortly after that, all that were there, except what I would call a fair sized guard, who remaine<l around the building, went in the same direction. Shortly after the prisoners heard tiring, I myself did not hear it, I heard the sound of a cannon, that is all I pan swear to. Ill about an hour or an hour and a-half, they returned bringing a wounded prisoner. Newett, with them ; he was shot through the leg and hammered on the heA<l with a musket or something. I dressed his wound, and the prisoner came upstairs and talke<I to us about the battle. He said that ourselves as prisoners nijht have been sent into his hands to show future people in what way he had conducted the war, pointing to the woun- ded prisoner and saying that he used that "man humanely. He said the volunteers and the police tired first. I told him tliat from what I knew. of Major Crozier, he did not intend to lire lirst, that he liad told me so. I suggested that perhaps a gun had gone ofi" by
28
-A. In the evrly part well, as well as down into the
■ accident, and the prisoner admitted that that was perhaps so, but that one shot caused the start. He called on his men in the name of God or the Sujii-eme Being : " I say unto you fire,'-' and he explained that the troops were beaten by the bravery of liis own soldiers.
/ O. At tliis time were tlie stores looted ? — A. They were not looted wlien we went
tliere, but befw-e we left they were cleared out.
Q. You were taken to Carlton on what day? — A. On the .31.st of March we left Dack Ltke for Carlton. When we got out in the yard Riel was there in person ; some were getting into sleighs, when he told us to inarch.
Q. Who v/as in command of the party that took you ? — A. Monkman. When we got tq Cijrltoii, we remainii:! there till the 3rd of April, we were then moved to Batoche,
J2. Who was ill comm md in taking you to Batoche? — A. Andre Joliin. In Ba- toche we were placed in a room on the lower floor of the store, afterwards we were put on the upper Hat of the same store. Soon after I sent a communication to Riel in reference to Ross and the othei' prisoners, seeing what I could do towards getting rfn exchinge. Riel came upstairSi and told mo he could not see things iii the same light, but. that he would exchange us fojf Olarck, 8proat and McKay.
Q. The Hon. Lawrence Clark ? — A. Yes; I said that could not 'be done.
Q. How were you treated as a prisonf M^n could lie under the situation, but after that, when we were taken ^ cellar, we could not have been treated worse.
Q. Did they take extra precaution at the time of Fish Creek ?— A. There was always a home guard left around the buildings. Just after the Fish Creek light, the Indians came back earlier, and alarmed me as regarded the safety of the prisoners. I thouglit as long as the llalf-lireeds were thei'e, the Indians could not get at us, but if the homr guards were taken away, when the Indians came back earlier, they might mista -re the prisoners. After the Fish Creek tight, I wrote to Riel asking him for an interview, that would be abiut tli- 2*Uh of April ; had a long talk with him about the prisoners. 1 told him about the fears I entertained about the Indians, and iisked him if he would allow int! to see the General or Irvine, to try and ert'ect an exchange. He refused to exciia|ige.
*). What did you say to him ? — A. I said : What do you want to keep us for ? I said : J. suppose you wish thaf if you or your council get into danger, you will want the prisoners for that purpose. Riel said : Yes, certainly. I said to liim to allow me to go and .see either Irvine or the General aliout getting an exchange. I said : You claim a victory at Fish Creek and Duck Like. And I said : Let me go and try for terms. •He said that lie hail gaine<l two victories. I asked him if he would not allow me to do that. He said : We must have another battle, and he said : If we gain another battle, the terms will be itetter. And he said : If we loose it, the terms will be the same as now. He said; that after another battle, he would allow me to go. From that day, I was waiting, expecting that anotlier battle would occur. On the last day, that would be the 1 2th of JI ly, he came to the cellar and called my name in a hurry, and as I was getting out, he (old the rest of the prisoners tlfat he was sending me to the General with that • message. I think the paper is there.
Q. [s that the paiier ? — -A. Yes, that is the message I carried out that morning -'•{Papep'sliown to witness.)
Q. Pid you see the prisoner riglit after that ? -A. Yes, right at the council chamber at Ifatoche. At the sam;! time that he wrote another message for Jackson to t like, I took the message to the General, I also saw him write that one for Jackson.
Q. Is that it (shown witness) 1 — A. Yes, that is the one that Jackson carried.
Q. He gave that to Jackson the same time he gave you yours ? — A. Yes, at the same
29
time ; one of us was supjwsefl to j;o one way an<I the other the otlier way. I rode to tli>- jfeiieral with that on horsclnick, tlie prisoner went witli ine until he passed me thtough his own lines. I went out, rejiched the jjeueral and ijive him tlie note ; he read the note Mid took a few minutes to consider. I asked liim to write a note to Hiel. He wrote that note and I took it hack to Kiel. 1 think tlial note is anion-; tlie pujiers there. Instead of allow- in}{ nie to go hack, into the cellar the prisoner made me <;o into the church, and he put an englisli-spnikinf; Half-hreed and an Indian to i,'uard the church. In alnjut haif an houv or so Riel calle<l for ine aj^ain and I went with liim amonf; the women and the children. "X He wrote several notes, hut none of them seemed to please him awd, he ti>re them up, except one which seemed to suit him. I sat talking with him till he had tini.shed writiui; and then I began to ask him whether it would not lie better to let nie see and trv what terms I could fjet. I said that he could come with nie and see the General. After talkin<( a loni,' time he left me and came hack in a short time witli (Jabriel l)umoiit, but as I do not talk French I had to let the pri.soner explain to Gabriel what we were talking aliout. Finally he sai<l there was a great deal to consider, it would then be aliout one o'clock : about half jiast one o'clock he had nearly agreed to « hat 1 proposed he should do. The tirinu then began and he at once turned to. and asked me wliat that meant. I told him that some of the Indiaife must have started it ; I toUl him if he would write a note to the _ (Jeneral, thanking him and say nothing about fighting, but leave it to me, I would^get the firing stopped if po.ssible, anyway I would see what could be done. He then wrote a note ,and asked me to take it. I asked him to jia.ss nie througii the lines.
Q. Is that the note (showing witness) .' —A. That is the note just as an excuse for me to get the tiring stoppeil. '
Q. That is the note ]- A. Ye.s, he wrot.' that in a tent or in tlie council chamber and gave it to nie ; he went part of the way with me through his lines, in the position outside his own ritle pits, the tiring was pretty heavy. Kiel went down into a low place till I overtook hiin, he «as on horseback. .Some of hj,s men had left the lirie pits and !;one to where he was. When 1 came n\t to him, Riel asked for the note and imt it into an envelope.
Q. Is that the envelope ( — A. Yes. .
<ii, Are those words the wordslie wrote upon the envelope .' -A. Yes, he took the note out of my hands and wrote those words on the outside in my presence. He ordeied the men who had left the rille pits to go back again and they went back along with uie : I continued . on, went to the tieiieral and gave him the note. I did not call his atteiitioii to the memo- randum on the outside of the note till night time. I asked him how the tire began and he said that the Sioux started it, but that if Riel would get his men to stop tiring that he would order liis men to remain where they were and they would not advance any further. There was not time to write a letter and I went back and it took- a long time to rtnd Riel ; I went among the women and the children and I found him. The tiring was getting warm. I told him what the General liad said, that if he would order his men to stop the tiring he would do the same and that he could come with me personally to the General. He liesitated for a time. At last I said: There ai-c not many minutes^to waste if you want to call the council tt>gether, call them and ^et ine address them. At last the prisoner said : " It is not necessary to call the council." He saiil he would do as [ wisheil. I said you acknowletlgeyou have the power to do as I wish without the council. He said yes. I said for him to give the order to stop tiring. He said : You know the men 1 lia\c. I cannot go among these men and tell them to stop tiring. He said : You kncjw that. I told liim I would go back and explain how every thing stood and .see if it was possible for the General to stop his men at a certain position if he was willing to do as I wishetl he was. <
Q. That is willing to surrender ?^A. Yes, I went back and told tlie Geneial what he said. He said that he could not accept it as a surrender, unless Riel ceased tiring. I knew he could not get his men to cease tiring. I went back to try and keep the troops from getting at the women and children. I got the General to send a note to Riel ofler-
30
/
^he'
I
f
ing the same terms as I had offered, that is that he should be kept safe till he had a fair trial.
Q. Did he speak to you of his personal safety 1 — A. He had very little to say aliout Half-breeds, as far as regards himself seemed the principal object.
I Q. What did he ask you in regard to himself? — A. If I would explain what risk he fan personally himself. He said to me that we knew that he never carried a ritle, of tourse at the same time we had seen him carry a rifle on one occasion. I told him he ran 110 danger as I could look at it. - He suggested that I should broach the subject of the 'liurch to the tieneral, and it would give him a chance to broach tlirf subject when he /;ame to be interviewed by the Oeneral.. He would say-that he was not to blame, that the ijouncil was to bliiffiie. V ,' ■
Q. During the time that you saw the prisoner there did you see him in command ? — A. He ordered the men injp the pits ou that occasion when some of them were leaving them. He took one Half-breed and .made him go back saying that he would be able to do some lighting with the troops at all events.
Q.,.When did you see him armed 1 — A. 8ome time before the Fish Creek tight, it iiust have been about a week before. I~was tiilking to lliel before the council chamber pne day, when a frencli Half-breed came up with the report that the troops were coming, ^lioitly after, myself and .the rest of the prisoners saw him as he passed the front of the house quickly with the Half-breeds going towards the river armed.
1^ Q. During the eight days 3-ou were in the cellar were you bound at any time ? — A. They used to tie us up about supper time and leave us that way till ne.\t morning, that was or the last eight days. Delornie came down and threatened to shoot us if we were loose *-hen he returned. Th.ey' used to tie our hands behind our backs and release us in the Homing again.
Q. It is sugsjested to ask you if, when you were released on the 12th, anything was id to the prisoners ?^-A-. He told the other prisoners the message I took to the ieneral, that ^f the women and children were- hurt or were wounded by the troops he k'ould massacre the prisoners, or words to that etFect, just the same as was in the note.
Mr. Johnston. . _/
I Q. Was the 26th of March, the first occasion an which you saw the prisoner / — A. No, I saw him in the settlement since last sunnner oli' and on, , but not to know him us I know him now.
Q.l How often did you see liim from that time?^A. Perhaps tea or twelve times. ■
Q. Where did you see him ? — G. At the Batoche g)!>ttl«iient. Prince Albert and liiflereiit parts of the Prince Albert Distriot.
Q. Were you present at any of the meetings ? — A. I never attended any. I was at '?rince Albert meeting lufew minutes, but'I took no interest in it at all.
Q. A few minutes at Prince Albert ?^A. Yes, .just walked into the hall and saw the ])risoner at the end of the hall. '
Q. When did you commence to take an interest in him? — A. When I went to Carlton as a volunteer and when I undertook scouting, j ,
Q. You went up from Prince Albert with the volunteers, how long did you remain •s,t Carlton 1 — A. About a day, and then I went through the settlement.
Q. When you left Carlton, where did you go 1 — A. Past the Indian Reserve, Duck tiake, and through the principal part of the French Half-breed settlement. I didn't go 4|uite to Batoche.
Q. You returned when 1 — A Some times at night and some times in the day time.
{
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31
Q. Did you see the prisoner at Batoche .' — A. Till the 26ih I did not go to Batoche
Q. Now you were prisoner, who took you prisoner? — A. Sixteen or twenty Half- ' breeds took nie. (ialiriel Duniont was in cliarv'e of tlie scouting party.
Q. How long were you prisoner before you saw Riel and his u>en ] — A. From two. o'ulocJi that morning till about noon the sameilay ; that i.s, when he came in per/on £rcjm Batoche. i . ,
Q. How long was he at Duck Like before you saw him? — A. I saw him comin'ii in the yard.
Q. Was he tiie first man tliat caine^ into the yard I — A. You cfiuld not see the yai:d, he was the first man I noticed. I knew him by sight.
Q. Were there others besides him ? — A. Yes.
Q. Was he mixed with tlie others ? — A. No, he was more advanced than the others ' he was by himself.
Q. How was he di-essed ? — A. Large cheek common looking trousers as well as I • remember, about the same kind of tweed lie wore most of the time. Riel was never \erv partici»lar about his dress.
Q. How long was lie there before he came to inter\iew you and the other prisoners ! — A. I would say it might be perhaps half an hour.
Q. Did he come to .see you or did he send for you ] — A. iHe came to see Ross and myself.
<.^. To whom did he address himself first ? — I do not know, I m.ay liave been the spokesman.
Q. What did you say to him ' —A. I did not tell liiiii exactly what I was there for. I gave him another story. ■ . "
Q. What was the story i — A. That I was tra\elling through the country making inquiries if the outfit was stopped at his headijuarters.
■Q. What was your object in telling that I — A. To get away from that place.
Q. Was tlie prisoner excited at that time ? — A. Not that I could .see, he talked reasonably, as rather a clever man.
Q. What did he say? How loiig were you engaged in conversation with him at that time? — A. Just wliile f explained him.
Q. Did lie tell you afterwards he had found out you were not telling the truth ? — - A. I don't think he found it out for five weeks.
Q. Did he say anything about the Church and State at that time ' — A. Not at that time.
Q. Did he talk about the rebellion 1 Wliat did he say ? Tliat was the last you saw of him till you returiie<l from Duck Lake ? — ^A. No, after the battle was over he came up and saw us.
Q. Did lie say that he was at that battle ? — A. Y''es, that he had ordered the men to fire.
Q. He said that Crozier tired the first shot !— A. He said that the volunteers or the policemen fired the rii-st shot. I said that I knew that Crozier w-ould not tire the first shot, that perhaps one went off by accident. Then he admitted that it might be so. He laid no stress on the first shot being tired.
Q. How long did you talk with him at that time ? — A. Quite a long. time.
<J. How long ?— A. I could not say as to the time at all. j
Q. Ho\V many of you VVoo<lcook.
! 32
Q. How long did you converse with liiin ?-^A. He talked to Ui? prisoners.
A. Myself, Lash, the two Tonikins, Ross, McKean ind
A. Charlie Newett. [
(,). Were the woundeil- prisoners with you iit this time ?- Iressed his wounds. The prisoner asked him some ijuestions.
Q. What did he ask liini ?- A. He asked him whether he knew the Hon. Lawreiue Clark was among the volunteers, that was the principal tiling.
Q. I)id he ifive directions Ikjw the wounded niiin was to be treated? — A. He left that in my hands. He lioped and expected I would do the best I could for the wounded prisoiiers.
Q. You say you were speaking to him a considerable time, did he at this time strikie you as being excited or excitable, or was lie calm ? — A. He was cool enough, a little elated at his victory.
Q. Did he speak of dividing the Territories? —A. Ife mentioned about the llalf- jreeds making certain claims and told us that we had no business in that part of the irountry, that \.e belonged to Canada, and that this country belonged to the Indians and Ualf-breefls. ^I did not take much interest in what he was saying, as 1 was dressing the ftouiided prisoner.
Q. Did you hear him talking of defeating the tiovernment that time? — A. Not as I'ar as defeasing the tioverninent is concerned. ^
i}. Wl'iat did he say al)Out it 1 — A.- He told hs what the ordinary claims were, and laid tliiU we might have l>een sent to show how he conducted the war.
Qj Do you know, ditlhe sity anytliing about saving the life of this wounded man ? — A. He said that he himself had stopped an Indian from killing that man. I told him that was the etfect of raising the Indians and that was the way the Indians fought, to hill a man when lie was wounded.
t^. When had you a conversation with him again ■ A. The next day I was down- stairs a short time, and I met him and had a talk with him about the Indians. I told Jjim it was a bad thing to have anything to do with the Indians. He said that he could jiot helj) it, that he was compelled to use Indians. I told hini<that he. was aware that he ■ould not control the Indians.
Q. Who \\a^ present at that conversation ? — A. I was by myself just' coming out of 4he door.
, Q. Were there any others around ? — A. .Some Half-breeds wen; stationed as guards, they were ariiied.
Q. During that occasion, or on any occasioii, did he speak of the Church or of ;he Dominion of Canada ? — A. No, nothing of any importance, except at Batoche.
Q. What did he say at Batoche about his Church / — A. He said he wanted me to mention to the General that he was to be recognized as the founder of the new Church, and that it the subject was mentioned to the General he could continue the subject when he metihiin. . .
I Q. What did you understand by founding a new Church? — A. I understood it as a
sharp trick to get the upper-hand of the unfortunate Half-breeds.
, Q. Did you understand that before? — A. I looked upon it in tliat light.
I y. Were there other Half-breeds listening to this conversation at Batoche ? — A. Lots of them were standing around, but only an odd one could talk English. He spoke iu !^iglish to me.
Q. Why did you think it was to get the advantage of the Half-breeds 1 — A. I con sidered that; he was using them for his own end.
)
33
Q. Did you consider his actions eccentric ? — A. He seemed intelligent, and in many ways a clever man,
Q. What did you say to General Middleton about this man ? — A. I told the General exactly what I knew about the matter.
Q. Did you tell the General that you had considerable influence over Riel, and that he was a simple-minded man 1 — A. No. •
Q. You have had considerable to do with the working up of evidence against Kiel. — A. Not that I am aware of.
Q. Have you been engaged in that line for the last month 1 — A. Jvot working up evidence.
Q. Workiiig up the case? — A No, I am here as a simple witness. I am not more than the others.
Q. Have you given instructions to the Crown about this prosecution ? — A. Not in any other light. I gave no instructions, it would be rather strange if they received instructions from me'.
Q. Had you anything to do with preparing of the papers or giving information ? — A. Not in preparing the papers, I have only given my own information.
Q. Did Riel appear to have been engaged in this fight, or was he afraid to fight ? —
A. As far as I could see he was too much afraid /to run his neck into unnecessary
danger. '
J Q. You were not alarmed that you would receive injury at the hands of Riel or the
Half-breeds ? — A. At the hands of the Indians.
Q. Not injury from Riel? — A. Not as |ar as the Half-breeds were concerned, I knew Riel's object in keeping us. He admitted himself that that was his object.
Q. How many interviews had you with General Middleton altogether? — A. One in the morning, one a little after the fire began and one after. I could not get back.
Q. How many altogether ? — A. Three. '
Q. During that time you had made arrangements as to the surrender of Riel to General Middleton 1 — A. He said he would do as I wished, but I could not get that, because by that time the charge had begun and Riel was gone.
Q. What reason can you give for Riel's willingness to surrendor himself ? — A. I told him what a kind man the General was, and he thought from the words of the note that what I said was true.
H.^ROLD Ross sworn, examined by Mr. Scott : , '
Q. Where do you live, Mr. Ross? — A. At Prince Albert.
Q. What is your occupation t — A. I am Deputy Sherifi".
Q. Where were you on the SOth of March last ? — A. I was at Carlton.
Q. In what capacity ? — A. I went up as a volunteer under Captain Moore.
Q. When did you go there, on the 20th ? — A. On the 18th, I think. i^^
L/ Q. On the 18th of March you went there ?— A. Yes.
Q. Do you reniambeK the 20th of Mai.-b.' Were you doing anything on that day in your capacity of volunteer ? — A. Nothing; nothing particular at all.
Q. What duty were you engaged in after you \fe*jnt to Carlton !— A. Chiefly volunteer.
3
I 34.
Q. Wliat description of duty? — A. Just staying there, waiting for an attack on Cfirlton.
Q. How long did you stay there 1 — A. I was there, we went there on Thursday, aiid I was tliere until the 21st. The 21st would be on Sunday — on the 21st.
' Q. What did you do' at Carlton? — A. I saw Major Crozier, and he asked nie if I would go to Stoney Lake, between three and five miles from Carlton, and see certain Ejiiglish and Scotch Half breeds there, and ask them to come into the Fort.
Q. Did you go ?-^A. I went and they came in with nje.
Q.. When did you conie in 1 — A. We came in the "same evening or about, I suppose, sik o'clock that night.
' ^. [Were you out after that again ? — A. On the following Monday morning I left ■with Mr! Astley. I went out scouting on Monday.
Q. Monday, the 22nd ? — A. Yes. We went to Duck Lake, and from IJuck Lake w|e wen* to the 8t. Laurent church mission. j Q. When did you go back to Carlton ? — A. Tuesday night, about ele\ en o'clock.
Q. On the 23rd ? — Yes, the 23rd, and on Wednesday, I stayed there all day, and about eleven o'clock in the evening, half past ten or eleven, Mr. Astley said that Major Orozier wanted us to go out and see if the Half-breeds would intercept Col. Irvine on the route frbm Regina to Carlton, and we went out.
Q. About what time ? — A. Between half past ten and eleven, as near as I can judge.
Q. On Wednesday night ? — A. On Wednesday night, yes.
Q. How far did you go ? — A. Well, somewliere near where the battle of Duck Lake was fought, and about a mile or so between Dwiii Lake and Carlton, close to Duck Lake.
Q. Did anything happen there? — A^^We were taken prisoners by (Jabriel Duniont and between sixty and one huiulj*d-TITen.
Q. ! Did you know any of those beside Gabriel Dumont ? — A. No, I could not re- ognize any.
j Q. Will you describe liow you were taken prisoner? — A. I heard a sort of noise behind 'me. The horse at first drew my attention to it by picking up his eai's, and a sort of stopping, and I turned around and saw a body of men behind me, and I called Mr. Astley's attention to it, and I wheeled my horse around and I was surrounded by Half- l^reeds and Indians. And he told me to dismount. Gabriel Dumont came to me and ifecogniied me, and said how are you a scout, and he told me to dismount, tiiat T was his j)risoner, and I refused to dismount, aiid they pulled me oft" the horse.
Q. Were they armed ? — A. They weie all armed, every one of them. Gabriel Dumont ^hen fe(lt my revolver, he felt it under my coat, he got quite excited and he went to take it awajt from me, and I drew the revolver out myself, and he held it, (witness showing how it was held holding his right hand to his stomach) and I was covered by aji Indian on my right with a gun, and there were two more behind me.
Q; Guns were pointed at you ? — A. Guns were pointed at me, and Mr. Astley called in 'me not to shoot, better hand over the revolver.
Qi And did you surrender ! — A. I' did.
Q. And what was done with you ? — A. We were taken to Duck Lake and put into lihe telegraph station.
Q. What was the aspect of Duck Lake, at tliis time ?^A. Full of armed men, all around the post. Guards all around the post. Wherever we were, in front of the building on the road, all around the t>uilding where we \f ere imprisoned.
I
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35 •
Q. Where were you put? — A. In the telegraph office.
y What kind of a buikling is that ? — A. A very small Imikling.
Q How many stories < — A. A small little liuilding, as large as an ordinary porch.
Q. How many stories ? — A. One.
Q. Was there any body else in there, litside.s yfni and Astley? — A. No.
Q. I supi)ose Astley was taken with you ?- A. Yes, only the two of us.
Q. liow long were you kept there ? — A. Till about nine o'clock tlie ne.xt morning, as near as I can judge.
Q. Did anything occur next morning ?—^A. No, nothing particular.
Q. How long did you continue alone there ? — With Mr. Astley ?
^— ' iQ. Yes ? — A. Well, we were tliere luitil we were remo\ ed to Mitchell's house, up
stairs. -. . *
t^. And when was that ?— A. That sanie morning, about nine o'clock.
(j. Tliis was on the 2t)th .' — A. t)ii tlje 26th. We were there until the rest of the prisoners came over from Datoche.
^Q. And wliat time was that ?--A. They came somewhere about noon. ,Q. This was in the upjier story of Mitcliell's liouse .' — A. Of Mitchell's house.
\"And the other prisoners were sent up there too ? — A. They were sent up with • ■<^- '
Q. Did you see any people about that morning? — A. Outside?
(j. Yes ! — A. The square was full of armed men all tlie time.
Q.^Was thei-e a larger crowd there when the prisoners were brought in than there was in the forenoon before 'I — A. Yes, there was a good many came over with the other prisoners.
Q. How many armed men did you see there altogether? — A. I should sav there would be <jetween :500 and 350 men, as near as I could judge. I did not count them.
Q. Of what nationality ? — A. French Half-breeds and Indians.
Q. What prjjportion would be Indians? — A. I should say near 100. between 75 and 100. •
Q. Did anything occur that afternoon 1 — A. That afternoon the battle of Duck Lake took place.
Q. How do you know ? A'. We could hear the shots.
Q. About wliat time ? — A. About half past tlu'ee or four in the afternoon 1 should say.
Q. Did you see any of the men armed going ? — A. I saw them all going, 1 saw about 300 going.
Q. In the direction of the battle-tield ? — A. Yes, the firs;t intimation I had tliat the battle was taking ijlace was Albert ^lonkman cdming upstairs where, we were, and we asked him wliat was the matter, and he said there was a little tight going on, at'that time they were all going then.
Q. All this armed force you had seen were hurrying in that direction ? — A. Hurry- ing in that direction.
Q. Did you hear any shooting and firing before going in ^Mitchell's ?— A. Xo, after that we heard rifle shots.
i' - ■ ■ •
36
Q. Anything else? — A. No, nothing else, I did not hear the cannon, they had a cannon there. I did not hear the gun.
Q. What occurred that afternoon, after you heard the tiring 1 — A. Well, after we heard the firing, about' half an hour afterwq,rds, they came back, some of them came back, some of the men came upstairs, one Fiddler in particular.
Q. Did you see the prisoner Riel that afternoon ? — A. Yes, I saw Mr. Riel that afternoon. ' ■*
Q. Where? — A. He came upstairs. \
Q. When ? After the tiring or before? — He came up before the tiring and he spoke to me upstairs.
Q. What ()id he say? — A. He called meiiy my name and asked me how I was. Spoke to me and said I need not be afraid, that I would not suffer at his hands, something to that effect^ I forget the exact words that he said now, but then after the tight he came upj ' .
Q. And what did he say then ? — A. The first thing he said was something about Newett, one of the men that was brought in as. prisoner.
'! Q. What did he say about that ? — A. He said he thought he would be l)etter with us than with anybody else. We were his friends and we could look after him better than anybody else, and he put him upstairs and then he and Mr. Astley were speaking something about tlie battle.
Q. pid you hear the conversation between them ? — A. I heard the conversation.
Q. What was it? — A. Mr. Riel said the^roops fired first, and Mr. Astley suggested that perhaps the shot went off by accident, and Mr. Riel said — well he did not agree with •him for some time afterwards — he said perhaps that was the way.
t Q. Did he say anything else 1 — A. Aud he said : When I heard the shot I called on my men|in the name of God to tire. And he seemed (juite proud of it.
Q. pid he say so? — A. No, judging from his actions, that is all.
Q. How long did you reniain in the upper story of Mitchell's store ? — A. Until the 31st. On the morning of the 31st we were sent to Carlton.
Q; IBy whom 1 — A. By Mr. Riel himself. We came out in sleighs. He said we were going to Carlton.
Q. How did you go to Carlton 1 — A. In sleighs.
■. Q. Did you go alone ? — A. No, seven of us altogether.
Q. Seven persons 1 — A. Yes.
Q. Anybody besides the piisoner ? — A. The Indian and Half-breed guards.
Q. You were taken under guard to Carlton ? — A. Yes, under guard.
Q. JHow long did you remain at Carlton ? — A. Until the 3rd of April.
Q. I Who w^s in command at Carlton? — A. Albert Monkman.
' Q. Q.
Q. What was done with you then?— A. We were then ordered from Curlton. We
\V*re there many men there? — A. About 150 to 200.
Armsd ?— A. All armed.'
You were kept there until what day did you say? — A. Until April 3rd.
What was done with you then?— A. We were then ordered from Curlton.
were called up about two o'clock in the morning.
Q: ( )rdei'efr up where ? — A. For Batoche. We were called up about two o'clock in the inoiiiing, and we started for Hatoi^he, and when we were leaving, the buildings were set on I ire. .
37
Q. Then the Fort was deserted at the time you left ? — A. Yes, they deserted the Fort.
Q. And they niarched to Batoclie ? — A. Yes.
Q. What was done with you when you reached Batoche? — A. We were put in the. lower Hat of a house' owned hy Baptiste Boyer for that day, and we were put upstairs oa the second flat.
Q. And how long did you remain there ? — A. We were there till the end of the campaign. That was our prison at the time of peace, and, if there was any excitement, we were shoved into the cellar of an adjoining building.
Q. How many times were you put down into the cel'ar ? — A. three or four time.s,
Q. Do you remember how long you were there the last time ? — A. About teii days.
Q. Continuously ? — A. Yes.
Q. In the cellar ? — A. In the cellar.
Q. How many prisoners were there in the cellar ? — A. Seven.
Q. What was the size of the place ? — A. About si.xteen feet stjuare and nine fleet deep.
Q. Any other precautions taken to prevent you escaping besides putting you in the cellar ? — A. Always a guard ujistairs, and the trap was very well secured, so there was no cliance of us escaping by knocking the trap up.
Q. Any thing else ; Were jou shackled ? — A. We weie tied every night with our hands behind us.
Q. When did you first see tiie prisoner after you were taken to Batoche ? — A. I saw him at ditl'erent times. I saw him every day n^rly.
Q. What was lie doing 1 — A. He would be out addressing the men, talking to tlieui.
Q. Could you say whjit was said to them 1 — A. No, it was in French, I don't . understand French, apparently giving orders.
Q. You don't know ? — A. I could not say what.
Q. Did he ever visit you during the time you were contini-d there? — A He came, I think it was two or three times. 1 am not sure as to the number of visits. < )nce particularly he came and I asked him fur a little e.vercise, and he said he would see aboiit it. He did not come back for some days, perhaps two clays after that, and I heard him talking outside and I went out, and lie said that, under the circumstances, he could not allow >is to go out at all : that we would ha\ e to stay in.
Q. Was that ail the conversation you had with him ? — A. Yes, that is about all.
Q. When did you last see hiui ! — A. I saw hiin
Q. That is at Batoche J — A. About eleven o'clock on the 12th, or a little earlier than that. It was at the time they called Mr. Astley, on the I'jth of May, the day of the Charge.
Q. Did he say anything to you that day ? - A. He came and opened the hatch in the cellar and called Mr. Astley. Mr. A-stley, he said, come up and stop the troops advancing, for if they hurt any of our families we will massacre all the prisoners in the cellar.
Q. That is what he_said ? — A. That is what he said.
Q. D^you remendjer having any con\ ersation with the prisoner after the Fish Creek battle i^A. After the Fish Creek battle, I remember Kiel one time — 1 cannot tell the day,jOT date — saying that they had gained two victories and they wanted to gain a third, afia they could make better terms with the Government.
/
f /' Q. Tliat \ V • Q. When
was afte
/ the Fish Cr
38
•eek Hght ? — A. Yes ; after the 24th of April.
re were you confined at this time, in the cellar or in the l)uil(lin<{ ? — A. We were taken out of the cellar and we were in the building.
Q. TJliis was during one of his visits to you \ — A. Yes, during one of his visits.
Q. Was the building in which you were confined attacked, or the huildinj,' above the cellar in which you were conKned ? Did they attack it at any time ? — A. No, not at all.
Q. Do you remember the .shell ? — A. That was done liy the troop.s. I think it was the eleventh of May there was a shell went through the building.
Q. Did you see Kiel shortly after that? — A. .1 did not see him. He came to the cellar — the hatch —and asked me if we were safe, all safe. I knew his voice, and we said we were, bnd he said : I am glad to hear it. And he went out of the building and came Ixick again. We could hear him walking along the Hoor, and he said: I forgot to tell you you had better call on God, for' you are in his hands.
Q. Was that all he said ? —A. That is all he said. ■
By Mr. Fitzpatrick : ■ . ' |
Q. Mr. Riel was not witli\the party that ari^ested you, was he? — A. He was not.
Q. fl'^ fii'st ti"'f >ou sa\\ Mr-. Iliel was after you were put in Mitchell's house, was it not?— lA. I had seen him a vear before that.
Q. (bn the occasion in question we are talking about ? — A, Tliat was the first time I saw him.
Q. You say you saw the troops leave for the Duck Lake fight also ? — A. His trooj>s> yes, the rebels. ^
Q. Did you see Riel with them ? — A. No, not going away, I did not see him.
' Q. If he had begn there, of course you would have seen him % — A. I saw him
outside. ,
Q. When they were going away diil you see Mr. Riel with them, going away to ' l)uck Lkke ?— A. i did not.
Q. Had he been with them you would have seen him, would you not ? — A. I might not. There was a big crowd going away.
Q. There were 300 going out ? — A. Yes.
Q. And you say they were half an hour away, half an hour elapsed from the time they left till the tiiiie they came Vjack ? — A. About half an hour, I should say, perhaps a little more.
Q. When Mr. Riel saw you in Mitchell's, the first thing he said was that he was glad to See you ? — A. No, he did not say he was gla'd to see me. He said ; How do you do ? You shan't suffer. >
Q. Who wanted you to go down to the cellar ai the time you were jmt in the cellar at Batoche, who put you there? — A. We were down diti'erent times. At one time or twice Deloniie, another time it was a French Half-breed, his name I have forgotten.
Q. Neither of those times was Riel present when you were put down in the cellar 1 — A. No, he was not.
Q. At the time you asked to go outside for exexx-ise, Riel said to you that you had l»ett#r not go out because the Indians wanted to kill you, did he not ? — A. He did not.
Q. Did he not give you to understand, at that time, that that was the reason ? — . A. He did not. .^
39
Q. Did you not know that was the resison ? — A. I had a sort of idea, the Sioui were . rather dangerous at that time. It was not" from any information from him.
Q. You knew very well the protectors you had there were the Half-breeds as against the Indians t — A. Certainly we did. We looked to the Half-breeds for protec- . tion.
By Jllr. Scott.
Q. You say, Mr. Ross, that Gabriel Dumont was the leader of the party w ho took you prisoner ? — A. He was.
Q. Did you see him aftenvards ? — A. Yes. /
Q. Wliere?--A. I saw liim at Batoche. I saw him at Duck Lake. I don't re- member wlietlier I saw him at Carlton or not.
Q. Did you see any <?thers of the party who took you prisoner afterwards ?^A. One Indian, that is all I can remend)er.
Q. Tlieu Gabriel Dumaut formed part of the same party that you saw Riel in com- pany with afterwards ? — A. Certainly.
y
Peter Tompkins, sworn, examiiied by Mr. Casgrain._ _ -^
nere did you live in the month of March last ? — -A. Duck Lake.
Q. Do you remember tlie 1 8th of March last ? — A. Yes.
Q. What happened on that day ?-p-A. Nothing particular happened on that day; till towards evening.
Q. Well, what happened towards evening ? — A. Towards evening, I was up at the mail station, and the telegraph operator came up there for me and wanted me to go and repair the line, tlie telegraph line was down.
Q. Well, what did you do 1 — A. I told them I would go.
Q. Did you go?— A. I did.
(j. Well, what happened 1 -A. I went and got a horse and rig and tried to get anotlier man. I had considerable ditticulty in getting another man, and finally I got my horse and brought him to Duck Lake to the telegraph office, and the miller, Mr. McKean, volunteered to come along witli me, an<l the operator got a message that we were to start for Duck Lake at 12 oV-lock at night, start about midnight at Duck Lake to repair the line.
-A. I repaired the line, in two diflFerent
Q. You repaired ' the line didn't you ?- places.
Q. Well, what happened to you after you repaired the line ! — A. When we were
repairing the line, there were aliout 30 Half-breeds came rusliing down on us and
arrested us. j
i- Q. Did you know, any of them ? — A. Yes.'
Q. Who were they t — A. I knew the man that was in charge.
Q. Who was ft ?-7A. Joseph Delorme was one of the men who arrested me, and Jean ■ Baptiste Parenteau was the other.
Q. What did they do with you ? — A. Tliey told us to surrender in French, at least that is. what I understootl them to mean, and they took us down by Walter and Bakers ' store. /
Q. Well, did you see anything strange at Walter and Bakers store ?— A. I saw them going through the store, looting everything there was in it.
y
■to
Q. Who was goiiif? through the stoi-c ? — A. The Half-ljreeds and Indian^, there were not iiiaiiy Indians there. j
Q. Were they ariu^d ? — A. Yes, they were all armed.
Q. Whom else did you see there, did you see in particular there any l)Ooy that you recognised f^A. Well, I saw quite a few that I reingiiized, I saw (Jahriel Duinont, and when we were sent upstairs I saw Mr. Lash, the Imlian agent.
Q. You were taken uj)stairs in Walter and Baker's store ? — A. Yes, we were sent upstairs, and I seen Lash, Marion, Joseph Gagnou, Ml-. Walters, William Tompkins and quite a few others upstairs. !
Q. What were they doing there ? — A. Most of them were prisoners. CJeorge Ness was another man.
Q. Was there a guard there ? — A. Yes.
Q. .pould you get out of the house, could you have gotten out of the house? — A. Not witJ^out a guard following us. ,
Q. There was a guard over you all the time ? — A. Yes.
Q. Well, how long did you stay there, how long were you kept there? — A. We werp kept there till about nine o'clock, I should Judge, the next-morning.
Q. That would be the 19th?— A. Yes.
Q. Where were you taken to then? — A. We were taken to the church, across the road.
Q. Whajt was the church used for at the time you were taken there ? — A. It ap- peared to be used as a council room and barracks and prison, and a restaurant and every- thing else.
Q. Well, whom did you see there ? — A. I seen a whole church full of people there. I knew some of them and some of them I did not know.
Q. WeTe the people armt- 1 — A. Yes.
Q.. Were there any Indians there ? — Yes.
Q. What tooTi place wlien they took you to the cliurch ? Was there anything done there by the rebels whom you saw ? — A. Yes, they brought some freighters there, and the prisoner addressed the people there.
Q. What did he say ? — A. Well, he spoke in French, and I did not understand what he .said, except towards the last. Tke last thing he said — I undei-stood him to say, to tell his men — he asked them what was Carlton or what was Prince All)ert ? They are nothing. March on my brave ai-niy. I understood him to say that.
Q. You lieard the prisoner say that ? — A. I understood the prisoner to say that. Q. To a crowd of |)eople who were standing before him ? — A. Yes.
Q. Was tliis in the church or outside the church ? — A. In the church, he was ad- dressing them from right in front of the altar.
Q.! Well, who appeared to be the leader of the crowd there ? — A. The prisoner.
Q. Did anything else take place in the churcli that day ? — A. Yes, we had our dinner Sn the church. And there were two men tried or 1 understood them to be tried.
Q.I Who were they ? — A. Tried by the prisoner. , ■
I Q.' What for? — A. For not being with him and liis movement. They were William Boyer and Charles Nolin. ' I
Q. Well, were they acquitted or sentenced, or what became of them ? — A. I don't
41
know what l)ecaine of Nolin. I did'nt hear his trial, but Boyer Mr. Riel had a talk with, and when he was through talking, Mr. Boyer spoke in his own defense, and the prisoner said that instead of it lieing a dishonor to him, it was an honor. I understood him to say so, he was talking French.
Q. It was an honor to whom 1 — A. To Btyer.
Q. Was this trial carried on before Riel only or bbfqre any others acting with him ? — A. Riel was standing on the platform, and Boyer stood up from among us men and spoke in his own defence from there.
Q. Did j'ou hear or see lyiything about that council while you were in that ghurch ? A. Yes, I understood them to be electing a council there.
Q. Did you see theriMyncil elected ? — A. Yes,
Q
Who were the councillors 1 — A. I can name some of them, I can't name them all"
Q. Name some of them? — A. Gabriel Dumont was the man who called them out 5 he called Baptiste Boyer, Joseph Delonue, Moise Ouellette and sevei-al more I don"t remember. j
Q, Well.iwas this before or after this trial took place? — A. I think it was after the trial took plate.
Q. Well, wliere did you go from that church i — How long were you kept there ' — A. We where kept there till about nine o'clock the next evening, and then we were sent down to Oarnot's place.
Q. Philippe Garnot's place ? — A. Yes.
Q. What capacity was he acting in do you know ? — A. He was acting as secretary to the council.
Q. To Kiel's council 1 — A. Yes, we were told that we would be sent down there, and' there would be a few men .sent with us to look after us, that our word of honor would be taken that we would not escape ; so about nine o'clock that evening we were sent down there and there was about in the neighbourhood of fifteen men came down to see whether we kept our word of honor.
Q. Were these armed ? — A. Yes. . ^
Q. Well, how long did you stay in Philippe Garnot's" house ? — A. Well, I could not say. I don't remember how long we stayed there, we stayed there quite a while.
Q. Where did you go from Batoche ? — A. To Duck Lake.
Q; Did you go there of your own fiee will ? — A. No.
Q,' How were you taken there ? — A. Taken there as prisoners and by a strong guard
Q. By whom ? — A. One of the guards told me it was by
Q. You were taken there any way to Duck Lake under a strong guard ? — A. Yes.
Q, Of armed men ? — A. Of armed men, yes.
Q. Where were you placed at Duck Lake ] — A. We were hurried upstairs into Mitchell's residence.
Q. Hilliard Mitchell's house ?^A. Yes.
Q. Did you meet any bo<ly upstairs ? — A. Yes.
Q. Whom did you- meet ? — A. Harold Ross and John Astley.
Q. The witness Rossj who has just Ijeen heard ? — A. Yes.
Q. And what was done to you there or what took place while you were there ? — A. Just as we were coming to Duck Lake, Albert Monkman galloped out of the yard
-V
42
and came tifme^i=iis, and he ordered liis men up to the front and he said the police are coming jrpm Carlton. He ordered some men who were with us to the front, that the
police ti ere coming from Carlton, and in Cree, at the same time, he called for us again and wanted to know wlio had his gun in our party, and then the man that was driving the team, the sleigh that we were in, put the whip to his horses and got in' as quick as he could, aid then we were taken upstairs. '
Q. And what happenned while you were up there ,'^A. Well then, when we were up there, we could see quite a few of them going off towards Carlton.
Q.
^, all " Q.
' Q. Q.
A. Yes Q.
Quite a few of the Half-hreeds 1 — A. Of the Half-breeds, yes, and Indians.
And how luiuiy weie there going off altogether 1 — A. I suppose probably over that went. ,
This was on the 2Gth day of March, was it j — A. I can't swear to the day. ;
It was in the nioutli nf .March last 1 — A. Ye.s. Well, did you hear anytJiintr wliile you were upstairs in Mitchell's house? —
What did you hear ] — A. Well, I heard a cannon go off a couple of times, and
..,[. .. „,„ J„„ „^„> . .*. .. V-.., ^ — „.- — .- — ,-.-
then wh^n the Half-breeds returned, Riel rode into the yard on horseback.
The prisoner rode into the yard on horseback ?^— A." Yes, and turned his horse to the back of. the building, and with his liat he was waving and cheering his
Q.
around
men, and he thanked them.
Q. He apparently came in with them, didn't he ? — A. Yes, he came in just along with them ; the men came with liim, the men behind him and some in front of him, and he waved his liat cheering and hurrahing, and he thanked Ste Marie, and Mt. Jean- Baptist* and St. Joseph for_^his victories.
Q. Did anybody coino upstairs into Mitchell's house when you weie theifl oh that same occasion I — A. After night.
Q. Yes ? — A. Tlie pri.soner came upstairs and before he came up, Charles Newett, who was wounded on Dark Lake iield, was brought to the door and we helped him up.
•Q. \yho helped him up ? — .V. The pri.soners who were there.
Q. Helped him into the room ' -A. Garnot helped him up.
Q. (iarnot was there too ? A. Yes.
Q. Did you see (iabriel Dunioiit around there? — A. Yes, Gabriel IJuraont rode into the yard a little while after. I think it was after the prisoner had boi;n (dieering, he rode into the yard and said in dec to bring out the prisoners and kill them.
Q. Well, you .say that the pri.soner went into Mitchell's house with those some time after the volunteer was taken up, did'nt you ?--A. Yes.
Q. Did he say anythinu' there / — A. Yes, I don't remember everything that he said there, I remember him speaking to the wounded man.
Q. Djfl he speak of the tight that had just taken place?— A. Yes, one thing he said about the fight was that the volunteers or the police had fired a shot tir.st. They fired first and when they fired he said, lie told me distinctly that he ordtied his men to fire : "In the name of the Father Almighty, who created us, fire." Tliem is the words he used. _ •'
Q. Did he say any thing else at that time ? — A. Nothing tliat I remember just now.
Q. Well, did anything take place at that time, did the prisoner go down then, or did he come back ? — A. Afterwards he went downstairs, and some time he came to see us.
43
Q. Well, what was he doing there from what you could see ? — A. From what we could see, I thouj^ht at the time that he was running the whole thing.
Q. Whenever you had any communication to make to anyliody, whom did you make it to 1 — A. Well, if ever we wanted anything in particular, we generally applied to Mr. Kiel.
Q. The prisoner ?-— A. Yes.
Q. Was any message sent to anybody at that time ! — A. I wrote a letter home myself.
Q. Well, was there anything else sent? — A. There was one of our men, who was a prisoner there, sent to Carlton with a message.
Q. By whom ? — A. By the prisoner. ■ .
Q. Who was sent 1 — A. Thomas Sanderson.
Q. What for? — A. He was sfut to Carlton to tell Major Crozier to send some men and take the dead off the Held, to tell tlieiii they were allowed to take their men off the field unmolested.
Q. Did the prisoner say anything further to, you on that oeca.-iou ? — A. Nodiini; that I can rememher just now.
Q. Well, did you remain at Duck Lake any length of time? — A. We remained af Duck Lake quite a while till after the police left Carlton. We remained at Dhck Lnke till a day or so after the police left Carlton.
Q. Then how did you go to Carlton ? — A. We were taken to Carlton.
Q. By whom, by the Half-breeds ?— By the Half-breeds.
Q. Then Where did you go or where were you taken to? — A. When we left Carlt'm we were taken frofii Carlton to Batoche by Duck Lake.
Q. Well, what took place at Carlton? Did anything take place at Carlton before you left 1 — A. Yes, they had set tire to the police stables before we left.
Q. Who had l — A. The Half-breeds, and the whole place apparently was on tire i just as we got up the hill, we could see by the tire and smoke that there was more than ' one building on tire. ''
Q. You say you were taken to Batoche, to where were you taken at Batoche ?^A
To Baptiste Boyer's store.
Q. How long were you kept there? — A. We were kept there till about the time of the Fish Creek tight, when we were removed to the cellar.
Q. Who was with you at that time? — A. There was seven of us: Mr. Lash. Mi-. Astley, Mr. Ross, Mr. William Tompkins, Mr. McKean, and Mr. Woodcock. '
Q. Was there a guard over you ? — A. Yes, always a guard over us.
Q. Well, did you have occasion to see the prisoner during the time, during the time- you were there ? — A. The prisoner used to come in and see us some times.
Q. Did he say anything to you ? — A. Yes, he used to speak with us e\ ery tiine he came, pretty near.
Q. What was he doing there that you could see of him ' -A. From what I could see'; of him I thought that he was apparently the leader.
Q. Well, did you hear anyljody giving any orders there? — A. Oi\ing orders ]
Q. Yes, giving orders? — A. Yes.
Q. Wimm ? — A. I heard the prisoner ordering his men to go on guard one nightv
44 • ■ '
Q. Well, if any oic^rs were given, who gave them, who wcue they given Ity .'—A. The orders that I lieard given were given by tlie prisoner.
Q. Well, did you stay at Baptiste Boyer's house all tlie time ?— A. We stayed there until we were removed to the cellar. (
.Q. How long were you kept in the cellar? — A. I don't recollect how long we were in the cellar ; the first time we were kept there for several hours.
Q. Were you at lilierty to go all around the cellar, or were you tied up or howl — A. We were not tied till the time of the Fish Creek fight or aliout that ; l)ef()re it, the day of the fight, Delorme came down the cellar and ordered three guards to come down after him, and he ordered them to cock their guns, which were douMe barrel shot guns, and they covered the men, while they tied me hands and feet, and we Were left that way till eleven o'clock next day, supposed to be that way.
Q. Did anything liappen after that before you were released ? — A. Every night that we were in the cellar we were tied mostly.
Q. How were you released? — A. I was released by General Middleton's men.
Q. Before you were released did you see the pri.soner at all have any conversation with anyboily in your presence? — A. The day he came to the cellar after Mr. Astley I did, the day that Batoche was taken.
Q. Till' d,iy that Batoche was taken you saw him come to the cellar to see Astley ? — A. Yes, he came for Astfey ; he came there in a very excited manner ; he was very much excited, ami so were the men who were with him. We could tell by the way they flung the stones ort' tiie cellar door. They just sent them rolling all over the building and he came to the door of the cellar and the first words I heard him say was : "Astley ! ■ Astley! come here and go tell Middleton if they — 1 think massacre was the word usect— if they massacre our women and children, we will massacre you prisoners.
■Q. — Well, from that time till your release did anything happen between you and the prisoner ! — A. No, I did not see the prisoner afterwards.
Examined by Mr. Fitzpatrick :
Q. You .speak Cree perfectly, do you not ? — A. Not perfectly, I speak C'ree pretty well. I
Q. You were arrested on what day? — A. I was arrested about four o'clock on the 19th of March. '
Q. You saw Mr. Riel for the first time when?— A. I am not positive whether I saw him at Walter's Store or at the church for the first time. I am certain of seeing him at the church, but I don't remember whether I saw him at Walter's or not.
Q. You saw him at the church? — A. I saw him at the church, but I am not positive whether I saw him at the store or not.
Q. Did you have any conversation with liim ? — A. Yes.
Q. At the church ?— A. Yes.
What did he say to you and what did you say to him ? — A. I asked him ii he would respect my property, and he said my property would be resjiected and he fjave me leave to take my horse out of the cutter that some Half-breed had kindly hitched him up to.
Q. Some Halt breed had taken your horse and he told the Half-breed to deliver your horse up to you and you got him back ? — A. No, some Half breed had it hitched up to a cutter and tied the horse up to a post, and I asked leave to undo it and feed him some hay, and he gave me permission to do so.
Q. And he told you your property would be respected? A. He told me it would.
45
•Q. Now you heard Mr. Riel make a speech to his men, did you not? — A. Yes.
y. You heard him tell that Carlton and Prince Albert w;ere nothing ? — A. Yes.
Q. And did not amount to anything 1 — A. Yes. j
Q. Wa.s he very far from you when he made that littlie speech i — A. Xo, he was about as far as vou are from me now. _
Q. That little speech was delivered by him to his men in French, was it not ? — A. Yes.
Q. You would liave no objection now to repeat the little speech, the substantial words he used, would you 1 — A. Well as near as I can repeat the words he used, 1 don't know whether I can repeat them now or not. He said : " Qu'est-ce (jue c'est <|ue Carl- ton ? Qu'est-ce ijue c'est que Prince-Albert ? Rien. Mm'chons, mes braves ! " something pretty near that.
Q. You next heard him make that speech to his men after the men had come back from Duck Lake, did you not ? — A. Yes. '^-^
Q. Where was he at the time 1 — A. He was sitting on horseback outside in the yard.
Q. And where were you 1 — A. Upstairs in Mitchell's house, looking out through the window.
Q. You were in the second story of Mitchell's house, were you not .- — A. I was in the upstairs of the house.
Q, And he was down in the yard ? A. Yes.
Q. And you heard all that he said, no doul)t ?^A. Well I heaid mo.stly all that he said but I did not understand him, at least I did not understand all he .said.
Q. (^f course the windows were closed and he was downstairs 1 — A. Xo, the windows were not closed. There was a pane of glass partly knocked out of the window and through' this )iane I was looking. ; '
Q. Through the pane you were looking down at him ? — A. Yes, through the broken pane.
Q. And you heard what he said out in the yard 1 — A. Yes, I heard what he said.
Q. You heard him make his speech there saying he thanked the Lord and the Virgin Mary for his successes 1 — A. I don't remember him thanking the Lord, I remember him thanking the Virgin Mary.
Q, Whom else did he thank ? — A. St. Jean Baptiste, St. Joseph and several other Saints.
Q. He went through the whole list, didn't he 1 — A. What do you mean by the whole list ?
Q. How many more did he repeat I — A. I don't remember how many more he said, he mentioned other Saints.
Q. You next were present at the choosing of the council in the church, were you not ? — A. I was jiresent at the council before I was to Duck Lake.
Q. That was in the church at Duck Lake, was it riot 1 — A. No, it was inthechvirch at Batoclie.
Q. Were there many i)eople there ? — A. Yes, the church was full. Q. Did Riel take any part in the election ? — A. In the election of the council l Q, \'^s. — A. I don't tliink he took much part, except he spoke in one man'.s favour whom somebody else rose olijectiou against.
Q. As far as vou can now recollect, that is all the part he took in the election ? — A. That is all. '
<?
46
Q, What he said of course was in French and you understood wliat lie said ? — No, I don't understand French.
Q. Well you understand it sutWciently to know what Riel said on that occasion, do you not ? — A. I understand some of it, I did not understand every thins; he said.
Q. Did Riel at any time prevent Gabriel Duniont or anyboby else f loni killing pri- soners 1 — A. Well I don't know who prevented (iabriel Dumont at Duck Lake. He did not seem to act as a man, as though he wanted to kill prisoners very bad. He just simply ordered them out and then he seemed to quit ;there when he had ordered them out.--.
Q. That was l)umont ? — A. Yes, he did not seem to push matters ahead very much to try to fiet them out.
Q. Riel took no pait in your arrest, did he ? Was he present when you were arrested ? — A. Xo. he was not present when I was arrested.
\ Q. Was he piesent when you weie l)Ut down in the cellar at I!atcM>he,'you were
»put down with other prisiiners of course ? — A. Yes. \(i, he was not present then.
Q. He was not down in tlie cellar at tlie time you were ]iini()ned and tied there, either was he .' — A. No, but I had sent men to tell him we were tied. 1 had asked the guards to tell him we were tied.
Q. But he was not present at the time ? — A. No.
Q. At the time that the shell tired by the troops struck your house, he went there and askeil after your safety, did he not .' You were there with the other prisoners of course in the cellar { — A. Yes, I was there with the other prisoners in the cellar.
Q. You know the houJe was struck with a shell, do you not ? — A. Yes, I know and
I ojight to know.
y ' - ■
Q.. Do you know also Riel came there after the house was struck? — A. I don't know whetlier he came tliere after the house was struck or before the house was struck, but I am inclined to think it was before it was struck, and after he asked if we were safe and alive and went out of the house and afterwards returned and s])oke through the floor, and he said : "I forgot to say a good woi-d to yoij. Remember the .\lnughty," he said, '• we have all got religion," and then he went oft".
t^. Very good .uhiee ? — A. Kind of cool advice coming through the floor at that time.
Q. IfSUpjiose ii would have been cooler had it gone through an ice house, wouldn't it ?— A. Probably.
Q. You know that he gave a prisoner that had been wounded at Duck Lake into custody of the prisoners that were at Mitchell's house, do you not \ Or do you think you » can remeuiber that '/ A man named Newett ? — A. Newett was brought to us, I don't think Riel brought him there, I don't remember Riel Ijringing liim there.
Q. You are (juite sure also that Riel did not say anything to you about him when he was brought there .' You are quite sure now On your oath that Mr. Riel did not tell Mr. Astley in your presence to take good care of that man ? — A. I can't swear that he did not.
Q. You don't think he did do it, don't you ? — A. I can't swear he did nor yet I can't swear that he did not.
Q. Y'our impression^s that he did not do it ? — A. I ain't got no impression about it. Q. Tliat fact did not remain sufliciently on your memory to be able to remember it of course ?-T- A. No, it did not. I don't remendjer him telling nie.
Q. Y''ou don't remember anything about it at all, but you remember well about the angels he gave praise to after the victory at Duck Lake ? — A. Yes.
47 William Tompkins, swornA Examined l)v Mr. Roliinson. •
Q. \ou me a brother of the last wrniess 1 think, are you not ? — A. A cousin.
Q. You iiavf been in the euiployment of the Indian Department in these Territories, have you not 1 — A. Yes.
Q. Foi- Tiow long ? — A. I have been in their employment now on and off for the last five years.
Q..In what capacity? — A. As assistant farmer and interpreter also.
Q. You were at fort Carlton in the month of ilarcli last I believe ? — A. Yes.
Q. For how long have you been stationed there ! — A. Since the l.'ith of August, up till that time. *
Q. Do you recollect the 1 Nth of March last ? — A. Yes.
Q. I>o you recollect leaving the Fort on that day ? — A. Yes.
Q. Witli whom did you go ! — A. ^Ir. Lash, the Indian Agent.
Q. And for what purpose ? — A. I did not know that.
Q. Did he ask you to go with him ? — A. Yes, he said I was to go.
Q. You were ordered by him to go then I — A. Yes.
Q. You were under his instructions, were you not ? — A. Yes.
Q. He was the Indian Agent there? — A. Yes.
Q. Just tell us what haj)pened, you went with liiui I suppose ! — A. I went with him.
Q. Where to ? — A. (Jne Arrow's reserve he started for.
Q. Aiiout how far from Carlton \ — A. i Twenty miles.
Q. On horseback or drivjng ? — A. Driving.
Q. Roth in the sleigh ? — -A. No, I was separate.
Q. Each had your own sleigh \ — A. Yes.
Q. What took place then .' — A. When we came as fur as Duck Lake Mr. Lash stopped therea few minutes, and then he went on to the river and stopped at Walter iV Baker'.s, and finally we got to the reserve and found the Farm Instructor nut at home, and fed the horses there, and the Farm Instructor drove up and Mr. Lash stopped a little while, and then we started back. He wanted to bu)' some potatoes or something for the Indians, as far as I could understand, and we came to this place, where I wlis taken prisoner at Mr. Kerr's store.
Q. Who were you taken piisoner by ? — A. Mr. liiel.
Q. And were there others with him? — A. Yes, there was Gabriel Dumont and a lot of others.
Q. About how many others ? — A. I should judge between 60 and 100.
Q. Were they Half-breeds ? — A. Yes, principally. ' -
Q. Were they armed .•^— A. Yes, not them all, they were not all armed at the time.
Q. Were the majority of them armed, do you think - A. N"i>- I don't tliin'k they ■were.
Q. And what were those armed with that were armed, as far as you observed ? — A. Guns.
Q. Well, who first stopped you ? — A. Gabriel.
48 .
Q. What did he say to you 1 — A. He told us to remain there awhile.
Q. AVhat happened then t — A. Mr. Riel drove up and said he would detivin us a few hours.
Q. Well, what happened ? — A. Well, we stopped there, remained there for aliout ten minute.s, I should think, and tinally we were taken to the church.
Q. Under a guard ? — A. Yes.
Q. Did all these men go with you to the church, or only a .small guard ? — A. They all went with us, as far <as I could see.
Q. And what was done then 1 — A, Well, we went to the chunh, and of course I don't understand the French language hut I understand the Cree, and as far as I could make out from the Indians, they were trying to elect a council there and we remained there all that night.
Q. Who were engaged in trying to elect a council, was Dumont there'! — A. GJaliriel was appointed to elect them, as far as I could find out.
Q. Was Mr. Riel there ?— A. Yes.
Q. And what part did he seem to be taking? — A. Well, I could ,not say as he was ' taking any part.
1 Q. Then you were put into the church ? — A. Yes.
Q. Were you kept in the church that night? — A. No, we were taken across to Walter's store, and we were kept there upstairs until the morning, and then they returned us hack to the church again, and we remained there that night, — not that night, — we stopped there that night, and we were removed down to Philippe Garnot's restaurant at Batoche, he was cooking there.
Q. Yes, and what happened then ? — A. First there was one of the councillors, he took our names, as a word of honor to go down theft, if we would not try to escaj'e, and I we put down our names on the word of honor, and then they sent some guards along to Ije sure.
Q. How many guards did they send in addition to the word of honor? — A. Well, there were two with me. I don't know how many there were with the rest.
Q. How many of you were sent down ? — A. Well, there was Mr. Lash and I, and George Ness and McKean and Mr. Tompkins, my cousin.
Q. Were the guards armed 1 — A. Yes, the guards that were with me were armed.
Q. What happened then ? — A. Well, we remained there until we went to Duck Lake.
Q. And what day did you go to Duck Lake 1 — A. It was the 26th. Q. And who took you there 1 — A. The Half-breeds took me there. Q. Did you go with the other prisoners ? — Yes, all in one sleigh.
Q. And how many Half-breeds went with you ? — A. Well, I should judge there
was about sixty.
Q. Any Indians ? — A. Yes, some Indians.
Q. How many Indians do you think 1 — A. I should think there would be about ten or twenty.
Q. Were the Indians also armed? — A. Yes.
(^. What did they do with you at Duck Lake when you got there ? — A. They put us upstairs in Mitchell's house.
Q. Tell us what happened next ? — A. Well the next thing tliat I heard w-as we were ordered down to be shot in the afternoon. I met Mr. Astley and Mr. Ross there.
;*9
1^. The next thing you heard you were ordered down to be what '• — A. To l>e sliot.
(J. Ill tlie iifteruooii ; who by ? -A. Gabriel was the man that [ thouglit ordered us.
Q. Was that l)efore or after tlie affair at Duck Lake ? — A. After the affair.
Q. Well tell us aiiythinj; you can tliat took [dace liefore that ati'air ? l>id you see them j{oin>{ out to Duck Lake ? — A. Yes, I saw them goinj; out.
1^. Where did they come from ? — A. The jiriiici[>al iiait of theui were ahead when we ;,'ot there.
y. How many do you think were ahead of you ? — A. I should judjje about three liunilred.
Q. And tliere were how many with you '. — A. Well, about 00 or 70 altoijetherj Indians and all. ._ ■;
(J. Alid of the ;W0 how many do you tliiiik were Indian.*? — A. Al>out loO. !
• ij. Well, tht'Y wei'e ahead of you. Did you get to Duck Lake before they left it, for the place where the tight took place ■ before they went out to where the figlit took place ; A. Xo, they were just going out ; how I knew they were going to tight, Monk- .man came running by and he said in C'ree, asked an Lidian where was his gun, or had he brought his '^»\i with him, and he ordered them to the front, so I tliought by that thero was going to be a fight.
t^. Did you see Hid at tliat time .' -A. No. I
1^. Well then, did you hear any firing ?— A. Yes.
Q. How long after they had gone out, did' you hear the firing ? — A. I should Judge about an lii>ur or an hour and a-lialf, ti> the1>e.st of my knowledge.
Q. Did you hear many shots tired .' -A. I heard (juite a uund>er.
Q. You heard them plainly, 1 supj)ose ! -A. Yes.
Q. What happened ne.xt ,' -A. Well then, they all returned and we were oitlered out to be shol the ne.\t. (iabrieUgot wounded, 1 heard them tiilking about it down stairs.
(j). Well whii interfered to stop that, any one that you know of ! A. A Half-breed by the name of .Magnus Ibirstein, told me that he interfered.
Q. Well, you were not tate'ufoiit, and what ha])pened next? — A. Well we were removed to t'arlton next.
Q. liefore that, did you see ^{iel .' Did you see Kiel at Duck Lake ? — A. Yes, he came with the jirisoners. ^
t^. And what did lie say to you .' -A. He did not make any remark at all to me.
l^. Did lie make any renuirk to anyone else in your hesiring .' -A. He made a remark to Astlev or Astlev ma<le a remark to him; they were talking about the tight, he said that the police tired the first, and Mr. Astley sai<l that probably the gun might have gone off accidentally, and he said, perhaps so.
Q. Did he tell you anything more about the tight .'^ A. The next day he allowed ine to go out, Itoss and I, to take the bodies off the field.
Q. liefoie that he told Mr. Astley the police tired first, and Mr. Astley said per- haps the gun went off accidentally, aiul he said, perhaps so, was there anything else spoken of as regards firing ? A. He said he gaVe the word, in the name of (Jod, to tire.
'. Q. He .said he gave the word to whom ? — A. To his men.
0- Did lie .say anything more about his meli |or wliat any of them had dnjie at the tight 'I — A. No, nothing that I heard. -,
IX[ Nothing that you remember? — A. No.
4
50
)
Q. Well, (lid lie say iiiiytliiiij^ alioiit yoiii-selveslf — A. Hi'sniil that proliulily \\r wric brought in tljero for our lives, to have our lives shvc.l. whereliy it' we hail liecii iiiitil suppose we would have been shot, that is the way f' iiiiderstDod it.
y. He said that probably you were brought in then' tur your li\es'siike, that it' you liad lieen out you might have been shot ( A. Yes.
Q. Well how long did you remain at ililliard Mitchell's J- .\. We lenuiined there until the .Ust. y
Q. And where were you taken then .' A. To I'arlton.
■ ^ \
y. By whom ( A. Taken by Baptiste Laplanti*. when he was dri\ ing the tiMm. there were three guards in the cellar, as far as I can think.
0. How many other Half-breeds were there with you tln-ii- '. A. 1 shmild jud'e about hfteen altogether, 12 to IT).
\ Any ImiJans?- A. Yes.
(j. How many ! A. Two.
Q. About tifteen Half-breeds and two hulians* .\. Yes.
tj. What was done with you there .' -.\. We wcic placed in a house there, ujiAtairs.
Q. When you got there, who did you find in p(>ssessi(pn iif Cavltiin .' A. .Monkman.
. With how many n;en .' A. I should think abimt ('A).
Q. Were they armerl / A. Y'es.
. How long did you remain thei'e ; — A. We ivmained till the ilid .Vpril.
i}. What was done with you then / A. We had to go back to liatoche. ,
Q. Wliat (li.stance is that t A. Tweniy miles. \
g. I iider a guaid ? A. Yes. Ml
. How many were in the guard '! A. We weiit w ith all the i-rowd. •
. The whole that were at Cailton .' .\. Yes. '\
t^. Did they burn befoie leaving.' A. It was in lire befnre I left. I could sec the flames when I had left
Q. Then the whole force went over with you to Batoche, almut H)U .' A! Yes.
Q. They were armed as J understand / A. Y'es.
(^. Then when you got to Batoche what wiis done with you .' .\. Wi- weie put in
Baptiste Boyer's house.
Q. How long were you kept there ? A. Kept there till the battle of Ki.sli Creek.
(^. That would have been on the 24th Ajirir.' A. On the L'4th .Vpril.
Q. Under guard? A. Y'e.s.
Q. And what happened on the 24th April ' .\. Well, before we were takeu to the cellar, I saw a man get up there and wave to the other party that were across the river to come on this side and they staii^ed, and we were taken down to the cellar and we did not hear anything more.
y. Wii() took you into the cellar, who was in connnand of the guard if there was one! — A. I could nut say who was in connnand.
Q. How long were you kept in the cellar ?— A. iWe were kept in till the battle of Fish Creek was over and then we weie taken out.
Q. That would only have been a day or twfi, 1 sup))Ose at that time / A.. Y'es.
51
ij. Well, liow loiij; wcif Vdu li't't imt of tlic it'llui- iit'ter tliat .' A. Well, to tlu- l>fst of my kiiowli'di^f, I tliiiik we were put down t-itlier tlnit day or tlic next, I iuii not sure wliicli.
(■i*. Now wliilc vou were iu liiiptistc lioyci's Iioum' diil you see Mr. Uii-1 .it nil .' - A. YfK, 1 saw )iiiii iiroiiiid.
Q. Did he t'Vci- siH'idv to you .' A. No, iievo- liad any ron\ crsatiou u itli ini- at all thttt I know of. '
Q. I)i<l III' i-MT iia\f aiiv i-ouv crsation uitli otliiT ihtmhi^ iu \oiir iHfiiMiiv .' — A. Yes.
Q. With wlioui .' .\. Jli' used to toiiMTx- uilli .Mr. .\^tli-y.
y. What did hf .say to .Mr. .Vstlcy in youi |>nsrn(i- ' A. W.li, .Mr. .^stlt-y told
«.,•. Ni'vcr udn<l what .Mr. .V>lli'y told you, what diil you hear liiiu >>ay to .Mr. .\sllev .' .\. Wfll, [ heard iiiui say he would f\< liani;i' us tor the Hon. Luwiimhi.- Clark, an<l Mr. Thomas .McKay or ('oloncl Sproat.
i), What did .Ml-. .Vsthy say to that .' .\. Wrll. I dout know esactly « hat hi- said to that.
(}, Y(ai (Unit rfiiiriiilii'i- what the aiisucr was.' .\. No.
i). Thfii <luriiii; all this tiuu- were you in the ru-stoijy of an arincd ^uanl .' .V. \'es,
C^. Who appcari'd to hi- in i-omuiaud of tin- pi-oylc tlu'n-. tin- ariin-d men ', —A. Hicl, as far as I i-oulil .si-c.
(.,1. hid you ever st-t- him ariind .'- .V. Y'l-s.
(.). What with .' A. Wiiu-hi-stcr Kill.-.
(i. You wi-rt- left out of tlif i-filar for a short time, and when were you put haik there'/ .v. I^hink we were moved Kai-k, liut we came out, I think \\f were mo\ed hack either that <lay or the ne.\t.
t^. You came out aliout the^lay of the hatlie of Fish Creek, "JIth .' .\. ^'es.
C^. You m<iM-d, were moved hack you mean, on the L'.'ith and l^titli .' .V. Ye-;.
(J. .Mow lonn did yiai remain tliei-e .' ' .V. The L'lt-h was the l.atth- of Fish Creek, and we were out on tin- --"ith 1 think, and than we were put hack a','ain riirht that ne.vt day.
y. Then you were put hack on the L'tith, and Imw loiii; did you i-(-niain then- then .' • — A. Hetnained there till 1 was released.
g. That would he tlie l:.'th of .May .' A. Yes.
g. Who was there with you .' .\. 1 n the i-ellar.
Q. Yes.' A. There was .Mi-. .Vslley, .Mr. Koss, Mr. Lash, Mr. .M.-Keun, Mv. Wood- cock and myself.
Q. AVas there any lif<ht in this cellar or what sort of a place was it ' .V. No, no
i , ' ■
light.
Q. No lifjht at all ; .\. No.
Q. How did you get into it ? A. Through a trap (k)or
y. And that was closed I suppose .' -A. Ye.s.
Q. Were you 'it liberty or oontiued, or tied in any way ! — A. We were tied foi- the last three nights.
y. Hands or hands and feet or how ? - A. I was tied hands and feet, the otliers were only tied hands.
/
o2
<^ Who wiis it orderecl you to l>e tied ? A. Well Delorine was the man that tied me.
<}. Well how was it done, was he aimed ?- A. Yes, he was armed.
(^. Did lie say anything when he did it? -A. He .said if he found us uiiloo.sed he ■wbuld shoot us.
(}. Do you l-eineniher seeing Riel on tlie iL'th, tlie day you were rescued ? A. Yes.
<^. Where did you see him ? A. He came to the trap door and took Mr. Astley out.
<i. What did lie say to him? — A. He said to go and tell (ieneral Middleton, as far as 1 can understand, if he did not stop shejling the liouses he would nias.sacre the prisoners. _ •
y. Did Astley go .' —A. Yes.
<.^. Were you there when A.stley returned, or did you see him ?~ A. No.
<^. Then have you told me all that you know about the mattei'? A. Yes.
i^. Had you known Riel before this? — A. I had seen him, I ne\ ei- was aciguainted with )iim.
(j. How often liad you seen liim before this? A. 1 had seen him just once to nijr knowledge.
y. And when would that havelieen.' .\. He was holding a nie<'ting at a settlement. b. Wlien ! A. 1 forget the date.
Q. How long before this .' -.\. I should Judge aliout six months.
Exiunineil liy Mr. (iniiENsiiiEi.i>s.
(^. Were you present at the meeting ? A. Yes. j
y. Did you hear any of tlie speeches at the meeting ?- A. Yes.
<.^. What was the meeting held for ( -.\. It was grievances as far as 1 could tind out.
t^. (;ri(«\ances that the Half-breeds contended they had against th^e (iovernment ?— A. As fiir as I could unilerstaiid that was it, I was not thfre long.
t^. I think you stated in your examination in chief that you did not understand French, Init you did unrlerstand Cree .' .\. Yes.
<4. Aiid will you state what Mr. Riel said, did he speak in French or Kngli.sh then? — .\. When Mr. Riel was speaking I
^i. Yes/ -A. Jfe was talking French.
Q. Somebody interjireted it for you '! — A. I asked an interpreter that had it inter preted to him. He told me in Indian.
Q. iSo that what you know then is the statement that you have prov.ed that Mr. Riel has made was interpreted to you by an Indian? — A. An Indian that understood French.
Q. Hut'vou did not know what he .said himself personally ? — A. No, ] did not say I did. .'
wei* presf ucli part, ve
t^. I think you said also that at the meeting of the council where you wei* present when they were electing the council, that Riel did not seem to be taking much part, very iniich of ally part in it ? —A. Y'^es. I
Q. Now you understood, did you not, the Half-breeds during yourarre.st were really standing between you and the Indians, that is you looked to them for protection t Yes, * I did.
■ 5:?
By Mr. llouixsox.
Q. Tln's<< couversatioiis with Astley were they in Englisli, or how did Kiel address him? - A. In Euglisli.
Q. So tliat you understood them ? A^ Yes.
JoilN_iL_LAau, sworn, exaiiiiiied l>y ilr. Osier.
Q. 1 believe you are Indian Agent for the Dominion (iovei-nniciit at Fort Ciirlton ? — A Carlton district. [•
' . ■
Q. You had not been theie very lung itt the time ef the occurrences in -(luestion ?
— A. No, I went there in January.
Q. On the iNth Marcli I believe yon were with the last witness ? — A. He svas my interpreter.
Q. .\nd you were taken prisonei- ? — .\. Yes, 1 was taken llri.^oner at liatoche.
(). Relate how you were taken jirisoner .^ — A. 1 was returning tVcni ( >ne Arrow reserve, and near Uatodie I came down ujion' a crowd of armed men. (iabriel l)umont came forward and said Mr. iJiel wanted to see nie. While he was t.ilking Hiel <lro\ed<iwu at a furious rate, he came fiuwai'd and adressed me as Mr. Agent, he says : I v. ill have to detain you. I asked on what gi-ound he was ijoing to detain me ? And he said the reltellioii liad connnenced and. they inteiuled fighting until the whole of the Saskatcliewau Valley was in their hands.
(,). That is what l\iel tolil you liiuiself '! — .V. Yes.
Q. What else passed between you 'I — .V. Tlien he tol<l me to give llji niy anus if I liad any, to hanil them over to Dumont. ^
Q. Then what was done ? — \. From that we were taken to the church.
(/ Who seemed to be in authority wlieu Riel came up ? — A. He .seeiuetl to commaiul the wliole thing, it was by his orders that tlie mules 1 was driving were unhitched, and lie took possession iit' them and the traj>.
Q. it was he told you the intention of the jiarty '! — A. Yes.
Q. .\bout how many men were there in arms ? ^ .V. I should say thert! were about 40 or SO in the mob.
Q. Mow were thev armed ? — A. With guns, chietly giins and a variety nf arms, rifles.
t,). l)o yi'U mean they were all tire arms ? — A. Yes, all lire arms.
C^. Then where were you put '! — A. We were taken down to the church' and renuiined there till about )^ o'clock.
Q. The church at what place ? — .V. Itatoche. Then we were sent to the south sMe of the river, to Walter and Baker's store.
(,). .\bout wluit time on the 18th ? — A. Between 8 and d in the e\ening.
Q. What was going on at Walter and Baker's store? — A. The store wa.s being pillaged by the armed mob, we were put upstairs.
Q. I)id you .see Riel there that evening ? — A. No.
Q. You were put upstairs and whom did you find there ? — A. 1 found Walter and his clerk Mr. Hannipin, they were prisoners.
Q. Any one else in the hou.st- ? — A. Not at that time.
(.,). On the I'Jth what took place? — A. That, evening tlfcre was another pri.soiier brought in, Louis Marion. ' .
g. On till- IHtli wliiii jn'isoiu'fs l>roujilit in.
Q. Wlio w. 1-.. they ?
Q. The liK'ii wlio li!i
54
tiMik pliu-c '! — A. Kiulv ill tlic iiioiiiiuj; then- were two niore
A. Toiiipkius and .Mt-Keai
l)een repairinj; tlie telegraj)!! line ? — A. Yes, tliey stated so,
(^. Wliat liapjwned f jrtlier on the lUtli? — A. We were tlien icnio\('d to tlie church and ke]it tliere all day.
<^. \\ liJit liapjK'ned •joing on. liut it was sj)ok
Q. Whom did vou M'e at the church, did voil see the prisoner at tlie diurch ? A. Yes.
i}. Wiiat was he doi
i). Aiiythinj; else?
' i}. Who was in ehai
It the (hiiivh ; A. There was a >,'reat deal of excitement >ii in French chiefly, and I did not understand it.
'i '. A. Addressinj^ the crowd. -\. Theri' was nothinj; that 1 know of particularly. i;e that ilay so far as you .saw ? — A. Tlie prisoner.
iiu stav there
Yes.
iilMtUT J^ oclock. and we I came aloiii; and I t^poke t and we were removeil to
<,>. How l.m;;- ilirl y •Jtith.
U. Of .Manli .'.—A.
1^. l)urin<.' that tinii
(J. i 'an you jrive u A. On one occasion he.sai inent. the Hudson l>ay ( <'very o|ipoitunity to sur another occasion he told tiiat lie had .sent an aiiiiel liodv to caijtuii' him
<!. Then where did 'on .<;o from tJie churi'h and when ? -A. They ki^pt un there till ad no lilankets or aiiythiny;, an<l a man by the name of Monkniaii > him and he .said he would see Kiel and see what could he done, 'hilip < iainot s lum.,!-. »
A. We remained there till tlie iiioriiin<{ of tliR
(^. Anythiii;,' el.se '.
had you any convi-rsation with the prisoner ? — A. Several.
anythiinr of importance he said to you as to his intentions ? —
\ that he had three enemies, and enumerated thelir as tlie( Joverii-
o.. and the jiolioe. he also stated to nie he would j;ive the police
nder and if they did not do so there wouhl he Moodshed ; on
me he had heard the l.,i(^ut. (lovernor was on his wav up and
\. I cannot remenilier what his ordinary conversation was, I
... __1.1 1-' .. 1 , J. . . i. .... I it ..A ^
\ otticial. that he woulil ho (/ Auythini;- el><
talked alxiut as soon as t
on one occasion he said lie wouhl not release me on anv account as I was a ( lovernmeiit
il me as .i hostaye.
inytliin^' i-ersona! to himself as to his nioti\<-s.' — A. Yes he hey had the c(aiirtry it would he divided u|i and .so forth, he
wouhl ,:,'ive, he was ;toin.ii to '/we a .se\entli to the Indians, a seventh to the Half luced.s
and I do'nt know what \ as to lieconie of the halaiice.
(^. It was (inly t wo was all lit stated to me.
i.j. \Va- anythini; si
sevenths he was .uoinji to '/ivf away ajipareiitly '. — .\. Tliat id as to his intention-, or movements .' -A. No. not that I am
aware of : on one occas ifin he wanted me to join the nioveiiient. he said lie would j»ilarantee me a )iosition
(,l, What did he sa\ that they were to form.
</ j>id he say aiiyt
Q. I •id he say what particular conversation i
Q. Wa.s there anytl
n the service if I fell in with him
.' — A. lie said he would iii\ f me a position in the (ioxernment
liiiif ahout^the Tndian.s .' A. Xotliinjf out of tliejway.
position they were takiii;; '! A. Xo, I do noi remenilier any hout the Indians.
in,i{ said as to the lenfjth of time he had, lieen considering these matters .' .A. Yes, lie told iiie he had lieeii waitin;^ I •"> years and at hust his opportunity had come.
\
',K Then where were you taken on the '2(ith ? -A. To Duck Luke.
Q. And where were you imt there ?— A. We were put above .Mr. Mitchell's store, rtbove his house I siiould siiy.
Q. That is witli the otlier jirisoueis ? A. Yes.
(V. l>iti you see Kiel there iit all liefore t1ie fi-jht ? -A. No, the main hody had <;one to the t'i.y;ht when we arrived tliere.
• ^>. Did you see liiui after tlie fightJ — A. I saw liini returnini; with the nioli.
<^. Who was he retuniinj,' with? A. If my memory serves me Tiijht, lie was ou lutrsehaek.
<^). How many men alx.ut him .' A. 1 should say hetween 300 or 400.
<i>. How wfre they armed, if irmed .' .\. They were partly aimed with jjuns, riHes and so forth.
(j>. Wliiii iliil ymi hear Kiel alter that .say anythinj; .' A. He eaiue up w ith a Avounded priMiner, the wounded volunteer, and In' "said ''he will l«e hetter in your hands aS he is one of yourselxes," or words to that ett'eet.
<^>. Then what eonversation took |ihice, in which the pri.soner took part .' A. t)ii- another ociasion he <ame up and was anxious to tind out if Mr. Lawrence Clark was at tlu" I 'uck Lake tiirht. I don t know as there was anything else particularly said hy him.
t.^. \\'as there anythini; said liv him as to which tired first .' A. Yes, he claimed the police tired first and then he told his men to tire, that is what he claimed.
(). Did you hear him make that claim that he told his men to tin- .' .\. Yes. I did.
*). \\';i> that all you heard him say .' A. That was all I renu'ndier at pre?.ent.
t,i. Did you renuiin tliere any leiiLrth of time at Duck Lake.' A. We remained there (ill the mornin>; of the ;llst.
t^l. What tiHik plaie in tin' intiival .' .V. ( )ne of tht; |iiisoners, SandcrMin. In- -.i-nt him to ( 'arlton.
(^>. Who sent him .' .\. The primmer.
(jl. Kor what pnr)iose ? .\. With a inessa;;e to Major Crozier, to m-ikI for x\\f dead ,111(1 that he would not molest any Jiarties comiiii; for them.
(,t. Do vou remiMnlier the day that was.' .\. A Friday.
»,». The Friday after the iL'ht .' .\. Yes.
ij. J>id Sanderson return .' A. Yes he returned on Sunday.
i). Do vol! know personalh of the dead Keint,' taken away hy Sander-<on .' .\. I did not.
(j>. Then was anythinj,' said liy Kiel at any time as to who were svith him in the nio\emeiit .' .\. .No. he never mentioned any names.
i). N'ot names, lait what peo]>le .' .\. Yes he told me the Indians were all «ith hiia, .md the Half Kreed.s, Ixith French, Knj^lish and Scotch.
i). Were with him ! .\. Were with him in the movement.
(). Thtoi y<ai were taken on the .'Ust where.' -A. Taken to (.'arlton. ^
»^). All of you .' A. Yes. , ,^
t^. What was done with you there .' A. We were kept there till the morninj; of the ;ird a])ril, and then we were carted or walked the liest part of the way to liatoche.
Q. AVhere were you put in Batoche.' -A. In the Ipottom of a store on arriving, and ilie next dav we were iuo\ed ahove the store. V
4
0(j
Q. You were kept kbovt- tlic ston' until wlicri ? A. We were kept al)Ovc the stiin- uiitil sonic exciti'Uifiit spraii<; up there iiiid we were put down the cellar a day or two and ■we weiv taken out and jiut hack aj^ain and we remained there then till Thursday the H.'Jrd, and we 4 ere taken out of the cellar after, the Fish (.'reek ti-jht was over.
Q. How weiv> you treated in the cellar ? — A. Our lian<ls were tied at iii^^ht.
y. Had you any communication with Kiel ilurinu your stay at ISatoche, any talk with him ! — A.